i NEED your opinions!

S

socommatthews

New member
which is better?some threads say use circles (which is what ive always done)and others say back and forth.i even seen a wax (S100 i think)that says back and forth.also how do you guys use your buffers?i mean do you use it to just put wax on,just to take it off,just to buff,or all?i just got one and ive always done it by hand.thanks for your advise.
 
Other side of the fence here: IMO it doesn't matter. Not at all. Consider that plenty of us wax with random orbitals (PC/Cyclo), which doesn't move in straight lines. I do 99% of my waxing with the Cyclo or the PC, both on and off, and it works fine. When I did it by hand there was never any difference when I went in straight lines or circles either, though I suspect that most people will get more complete coverage if they go in circles as they'll probably go over the same area more times (less chance of missing a spot).



The only reason to ever go in straight lines is that if you cause marring a straight scratch won't be as visible as a circular/elliptical one because of the more limited (i.e., single)viewing angle.



If your product or application media instills marring then yeah, you'll benefit from straight lines. But you'd benefit more from using a different product/application media ;)
 
Don't know that it really matters, but when applying products by hand, I tend to prefer applying a thicker product like a paste wax in circles - seems to thin it out a little better. A liquid like KSG I do in a horizontal and then vertical motion to make sure I cover the whole area. When removing product, I like to go in straight lines.



PC goes in a box pattern using horizontal and vertical movements to cover an area. I haven't used PC to remove a product, but a lot of people do.
 
i have always wondered why some people (the majority, it seems) say to use back and forth vs. circular, etc. if the idea is that you may scratch the surface...then it's going to happen so matter what pattern you use (contaminated towels/pads will scratch...not the motion of it). logically, circular would increase your odds of completely covering the surface (like our random orbitals do). i don't think it matters at all.



.02
 
well i ended up appling in streight lines and removing in circles.i only used the orbital to buff w/a microfiber pad.i cant say it made any diffrence tho.the wax i used was S100 and its a paste so i couldnt apply it withe the orbital unless i applied with a pad and then buffed it in which seemed like double work to me.plus im not used to using a orbital yet,ive always hand waxed.
 
socommatthews said:
...the wax i used was S100 and its a paste so i couldnt apply it withe the orbital unless i applied with a pad and then buffed it in which seemed like double work to me...
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Not really. It only takes a couple seconds to spread some wax on the pad with a spatula or spoon or whatever.



Then apply the wax with the buffer in overlapping passes.





PC.
 
I'd say the the most important thing with waxing/sealing/polishing you paint is to have the pad completely saturated with the product being used. Otherwise, the material (pad) uncoated is getting ground/rubbed into the finish. This can sometimes do more marring than the product itself. Circular or back and forth make do difference. "Different strokes for different folks"
 
David Fermani said:
I'd say the the most important thing with waxing/sealing/polishing you paint is to have the pad completely saturated with the product being used. Otherwise, the material (pad) uncoated is getting ground/rubbed into the finish. This can sometimes do more marring than the product itself. Circular or back and forth make do difference. "Different strokes for different folks"
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I totally agree here.

I call it having the pad "loaded" or "primed".

I always apply as the wind flows over the body when doing it by hand. With a PC, i go the sameway.
 
What's interesting is that many LSP manufacturers are recommending back and forth rather than circular.

In general, logic would seem to dictate that it shouldn't matter - at least with respect to swirls or marring...as long as the surface is clean. The only way you mar a surface is by rubbing it with an abrasive material. Easier than it sounds.

I remember a kid that worked for me years ago (before any of us knew about clay) that used to say "I get more dirt off when I wax then when I wash my car." Tar and grime can adhere really well, especially on a vehicle that doesn't already have a good LSP and it doesn't always just wash off.

I was noticing the other day on my vehicle that should be well protected, yet the 'dirt' following a drive in the rain is able to adhere to the body panels so well, a strong spray of water won't remove. Even with washing, some spots required some extra attention to remove. The point is on an older, neglected surface, waxing after just a regular wash could create all sorts of marring regardless of the method as these pieces of grit get into the applicator pad.
 
i dont think it really matters, when using a paste by hand i find that i do apply in tiny circles. does this induce surface marring? not when your applicator is suitable for the job and completely clean.
 
abbeysdad said:
What's interesting is that many LSP manufacturers are recommending back and forth rather than circular.

In general, logic would seem to dictate that it shouldn't matter - at least with respect to swirls or marring...as long as the surface is clean. ... Even with washing, some spots required some extra attention to remove. The point is on an older, neglected surface, waxing after just a regular wash could create all sorts of marring regardless of the method as these pieces of grit get into the applicator pad.
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Heh heh, when logic dictates, smart people pay attention ;)



My $0.02 on the recommendation to use straight lines:



Manufacturers have to err on the side of caution and assume that people will botch things up and then blame the product. As you found, just "washing and waxing" can lead to marring. Since most people probably don't know about clay, paint cleaners, etc. and *do* just wash and clay (or otherwise fail to take the necessary precautions to avoid marring), telling people to do stuff in straight lines will result in the marring being less noticeable and the customers thus being happier.
 
It shouldnt matter IMO. If the surface is not marring either way is good. If the surface is scratching time to stop and fix the problem, especially after all that hard work.
 
well im using the back and forth method from now on.not that circles didnt work,but hearing the explination for going back and forth it makes sence.also do you really put THAT much wax on the pads to apply with?i always made sure the pad was never dry but i hated appling too much because of all the leftover white residue after it hazes.i figuered i was wasting it so i applied thin coats.i would upload pics but this forum only lets me use REALLY small pixel photo and mine are all like 1500 by 1500 atleast.also do you guys use the clay every time before appling wax?i only do it every month or two because after i wash i "feel" the paint and its baby *** smooth so i dont see any need for it seein that thats what the clay is for,removing anything on the paint.
 
I believe the idea behind back and forth is that if marring was introduced, it would be less visible than if done in a circular motion. Straight scratches reflect less light than circular?
 
ShineMGood- Yeah that's the idea. Every scratch is most visible from one viewing angle. If it's a straight scratch you have to look at it from that one angle for it to look its worst. But if it's circular there's a good chance that no matter how you look at it some part of it will be at that worst possible/most obvious viewing angle.



socommatthews said:
..do you really put THAT much wax on the pads to apply with?....also do you guys use the clay every time before appling wax?..
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I make sure there's wax on the entire surface of my pad, but *VERY LITTLE* wax. I hardly use any...a can of #16 lasts me for years and years even though I apply it pretty frequently. ScottWax says he gets maybe 80 wax jobs out of a can of it, and I bet I get a lot more than that.



I don't *always* clay before rewaxing, but I'll usually find some area that could benefit from it. I kinda suspect that if you went over any car before rewaxing with Sonus green, you'd find the clay had some contamination on it by the time you did the whole thing- seem like there's always *something* on it *somewhere*.
 
Accumulator said:
ShineMGood- Yeah that's the idea. Every scratch is most visible from one viewing angle. If it's a straight scratch you have to look at it from that one angle for it to look its worst. But if it's circular there's a good chance that no matter how you look at it some part of it will be at that worst possible/most obvious viewing angle.







I make sure there's wax on the entire surface of my pad, but *VERY LITTLE* wax. I hardly use any...a can of #16 lasts me for years and years even though I apply it pretty frequently. ScottWax says he gets maybe 80 wax jobs out of a can of it, and I bet I get a lot more than that.



I don't *always* clay before rewaxing, but I'll usually find some area that could benefit from it. I kinda suspect that if you went over any car before rewaxing with Sonus green, you'd find the clay had some contamination on it by the time you did the whole thing- seem like there's always *something* on it *somewhere*.
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yea im sure your right.i need to order some more clay.i have the mothers clay but its a couple months old.
 
My .02 - I agree with those who say "it doesn't matter" as long as 1. you're not using an abrasive product (such as a "pure" wax) or 2. you are using an abrasive product but you're going to follow it up with another product to remove the marring left behind (if you follow my drift! ) In other words, if you're an "Autopian", it doesn't matter! :D



BTW, note to Accumulator: I noticed the change of signature! Heh, heh! ;) :D
 
socommatthews said:
..i need to order some more clay.i have the mothers clay but its a couple months old.
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The age of the clay shouldn't matter. I have some Griot's (IMO the same stuff Mother's sells under their name; I couldn't tell a difference) that's years old and it works the same as it did when new. But I strongly encourage you to try other clays. The Griot's/Mother's just isn't that good IMO, side-by-side comparisons with Sonus convinced me of that in no time. People like other clays too (ClayMagic comes to mind), so it's not like the Sonus is the only game in town, but IMO you can do a lot better than the Mother's.



SuperString- Heh heh, yeah...now I just gotta come up with a new one or else leave it blank for a while..
 
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