New to M105 and M205 and wanting to remove water spots, could use some advice

[imported_RedlineIRL]

I recently bought both a bottle of both Meguiars 205 and 105 since they seem to be very popular in use with a lot of people here with good results, and wanted to give them a try. Plus I seemed to have somehow got some unexplained water spots/etching (I can`t feel them with my fingernail so I don`t know if that`s considered etching or not) on my hood that were more the less masked for a day with the previous polish I used (danase Swirl Abolisher I) in combination with my PC7424 and white pads combo, instead of actually removing them. I made a thread on this Car Detailing section, in case any of you all wanted to see this



http://www.autopia.org/forum/car-det...ter-marks.html





The only machine polisher I have is a PC 7424, and as far as my skillset with it, I`d consider myself at the amateur or beginner stages with it. I don`t know if any of you all are familiar with the Danase Swirl Abolisher polishes, but those are the only machine polished I have used and I was able to do alright with them. I`m just ready to step up to beter products now. As far as pads, I probably have a limited selection of correcting pads compared to most. I have some LC CCS 6.5" orange and white pads, and some LC CCS 5.5" white and gray pads (Well I guess the grey isn`t much when it comes to correction).



The questions I have are, will I be able to get much correction with the M105 on a 6.5" orage pad and with M205 on a 6.5" white? Or will I be better off using M105 on the 5.5" white and try doing finishing with M105 on the same kind of pad?



Are M105 and M205 pretty much the same procedure when using them with the PC as most other polishes, such as using speed 5 or 6 for the best correcting results? How much product of both should I need on a pad? Does the M105 and M205 breakdown quickly, or have alonger working period than most polishes? What is the best way to tell when both have broken down completely and are ready for wiping?



I apoligise if these have been answered before in the past, but I have searched and found many psots on both of these polishes, but not really much info as far as what I am looking to find out

[Accumulator]

RedlineIRL- IME, M105 or not, those big 6-6.5" pads simply won`t do it via PC. Yeah, I know, others claim to do OK with `em, but it doesn`t work that way for me.



I don`t even use 5-5.5" pads via PC for correction.



I *have* done some pretty incredible work using M105 via PC with 4" pads..from foam to PFW to Edge-style wool (available from Cyclotoolmakers). I removed some severe etching from the roof of my Yukon that way. Heh heh, you can really cut off paint with those little pads, so don`t overdo it.



M105/M205 are very different from conventional/diminishing-abrasive products, and to get into their proper use would be too much for this thread. They don`t break down, they just dry out. Very, VERY, *VERY* short work-times. You really need to find info on the Kevin Brown Method ("KBM") as he`s figured out some very good techniques for using these products. Don`t just try to use `em like the suff you`re used ot or it`ll go badly.



But honestly, I just read the labels, experiemented for a few minutes, and did fine....but that`s just me.



Also look into the new Optimum Spray-type compound and polish, viable alternatives IMO.

[imported_RedlineIRL]

I don`t know, I think the 6.5" pads might do it. I`m going to try it first anyways, I always go the least agressive first. I tried some 205 with a foam applicator pad and 5-6 swipes with not a lot of pressure in a small area, and it seemed to get rid of most of it. Maybe there are some oils in it that covered it up, does 205 have any in it? It did seem different using it compared to most polishes, it didn`t dry a quickly. After wiping, it did leave some light scratching and marring that was visible in the right light. It really makes me wonder how 105 is going to finish out without making it a scratched and hazy mess if I was able to make scratches with light pressure by hand.



With typical polishes I have used, I was able to start slow to spread the product, then go up to speed 3-4, and finish off at 5-6. Usuallly making 8 or so passes up and down, side to side was enough to break it down and get good results. From reading, it says that to set the machine to 4-5 with moderate pressure the first two passes, then to lighten up on the last two. So I take it that it is not a good idea to start out slow on the first pass then crank up the speed?



I just find it kind of confusing since it seems to have some cut to it, but it is also supposed to be a finishing polish. Am I missing something where 205 needs to be finished with something a little less ageressive?

[schiddy]

The questions I have are, will I be able to get much correction with the M105 on a 6.5" orage pad and with M205 on a 6.5" white?

I don`t know, I think the 6.5" pads might do it.

I think you should listen to Accumulator`s advice on pad size. I too, am a noob to polishing and m105/205. I`ve done about 1 car and 1 bike so far with the combo. Following Accumulator`s advice I went with a griot`s garage DA, m105/205, and hydrotech 4" pads. Even with m105 on highest speed, it took 2-3 passes to clear up a couple of areas of deep swirling and scratches on a black 2002 mazda 626. Most of the car was fine with 1 pass of m105 and m205.

After wiping, it did leave some light scratching and marring that was visible in the right light. It really makes me wonder how 105 is going to finish out without making it a scratched and hazy mess if I was able to make scratches with light pressure by hand.

Are you trying to say that the 205 introduced scratches and haze? That doesn`t sound right. Was it really soft paint? I would guess that either those blemishes were there to start with, or you created them with improper prep.



Did you wash, clay, wash thoroughly before polishing? Did you have contaminants in the foam pad or in the microfiber you used to wipe away the 205?

[imported_RedlineIRL]

I think you should listen to Accumulator`s advice on pad size. I too, am a noob to polishing and m105/205. I`ve done about 1 car and 1 bike so far with the combo. Following Accumulator`s advice I went with a griot`s garage DA, m105/205, and hydrotech 4" pads. Even with m105 on highest speed, it took 2-3 passes to clear up a couple of areas of deep swirling and scratches on a black 2002 mazda 626. Most of the car was fine with 1 pass of m105 and m205.







Are you trying to say that the 205 introduced scratches and haze? That doesn`t sound right. Was it really soft paint? I would guess that either those blemishes were there to start with, or you created them with improper prep.



Did you wash, clay, wash thoroughly before polishing? Did you have contaminants in the foam pad or in the microfiber you used to wipe away the 205?

Yes, the scratches and haze were a result from the 205. I don`t think its soft IMO, GM vehicles seem to be pretty hard from what everyone says. The car was thoroughly washed before doing this, all I did was put a little drop of product on a foam applicator pad and worked into a 3"x3" area with not a lot of pressure with a few back and forth motions. I don`t think it`s anything that I could have done wrong. Maybe I just didn`t work it in long enough (the label says it can be used by hand). I am not too overly concerned becuase I know that these scratches could be taken out with a machine, it`s just the possibility of creating scratches and hazing everywhere with a PC with what is supposed to be more of a finishing polish that has me concerned

[Legacy]

Originally Posted by RedlineIRL

"I don`t know, I think the 6.5" pads might do it."



Believe me 6.5" pads are too big for the pc to spin. If it`s not rotating it`s not working. Your theory of least aggressive first in this case is wrong. You are using the same color pad with a 5.5" or 4" .

[schiddy]

Did you clay as well as wash?

[Accumulator]

Yes, the scratches and haze were a result from the 205. I don`t think its soft IMO, GM vehicles seem to be pretty hard from what everyone says. The car was thoroughly washed before doing this, all I did was put a little drop of product on a foam applicator pad and worked into a 3"x3" area with not a lot of pressure with a few back and forth motions. I don`t think it`s anything that I could have done wrong. Maybe I just didn`t work it in long enough (the label says it can be used by hand). I am not too overly concerned becuase I know that these scratches could be taken out with a machine, it`s just the possibility of creating scratches and hazing everywhere with a PC with what is supposed to be more of a finishing polish that has me concerned

I`ve used M105/M205 on GM clear. The M105 *CAN* leave issues but the M205 never did :think:



Random thoughts:



- Used by hand, I find both to be Accumulator-proof, with the exception of the M105 leaving micromarring in most cases (still haven`t figured out how to avoid that 100%).

- Ascertain that the issue is from the M205 and not the M105.

- The M205 finish can sometimes be refined a bit, but it should be *VERY* good. I called it "good enough" on my carbon metallic Yukon, and a) I`m really demanding, b) that`s a tricky paint to get just right, and c) non-Autopians think it looks unbelievably good- "is that repainted?".

- Prime pads ala KBM.

- M205 has a *LOT* of oils in it and I find it a PIA to clean them away.

- These products don`t break down so the "working them enough?" shouldn`t really be a factor.

- I wouldn`t be surprised if using 6.5" pads actually caused problems as opposed to just not getting the job done.