Rotary Holograms Problems. Please help!!

[Spilchy]

Hey guys! :wavey I have a few questions pertaining to rotarys and holograms..... Here we go again with this topic!



I tried the search function, but feel I need some fresh answers relative to my issue.



I used the rotary on a 1994 Acura Legend with dark green paint. It was parked outside and in fairly bad shape with deep scratches and moderate swirling.



I clayed the surface and taped off all trim.



I knew I wasn`t going to get the deep scratches. So I busted out the Makita, a 6.5" new white LC polish pad and #80. I applied a thin ring of product around the pad, smeared it on half the trunk and went to town around 1500 rpm`s working it until it was almost gone. I started with pressure, lightened up 10 seconds into it, and then used the weight of the polisher to finish up.



Well, the paint came out AWESOME! It was nice and warm to the touch after wiping it down. However, when I pulled it into the sun, I had holograms.



I held it perfectly flat, made moderately slow, over lapping passes and didn`t use any lubrication.



WHY, WHY, WHY, WHY do I ALWAYS get holograms???!!! What can I do????



Also, on the side of the car, the buffer "hops" about! It`s like I can`t control it or something :nixweiss



So, what are some tips to help me prevent this?



1) lower rpm`s?

2) lubricate the pad? (but it slings EVERYWHERE if I do)

3) a different polish? what line works well with a rotary that has varying degrees of abrasives?

4) how much pressure?

5) work polish until dry or leave damp?

6) how do you prevent buffer "hop" on side panels?



Sorry about the rant, but you folks who do awesome work with the rotary, certainly have mastered a desirable skill!



Thanks for the feedback :xyxthumbs Hope others can learn from this too.

[DrSauekraut]

First off, donâ€â„¢t get so upset. The reason youâ€â„¢re so frustrated is because youâ€â„¢re a perfectionist trying to master a tool which takes years and years of experience. Try a little patience . . .



I know this may sound crazy, but I practice making mistakes. You read right â€â€œ Iâ€â„¢ll use my girlfriendâ€â„¢s POS and practice ways of creating and fixing blemishes with a rotary. I have tried so many combinations, that I know precisely the pad, pressure, and abrasive to create any miserable little problem I can think of. Hell, I buffed a smiley face into the hood simply to see if I could remove it.



Hereâ€â„¢s what works for me . . .



a. Start slow â€â€œ less than 1000 RPMs. Increase speeds if the cutting is not up to par.



b. Use a bit of lube, i.e. a QD or mist of water.



c. Know your polish! Experiment with everything available under the sun . . . I have found that some of the best and most expensive polishes and compounds are complete garbage.



d. No pressure. Seriously. Donâ€â„¢t work it, move it, or push it. Feel the movement of the pad and flow with it.



e. Keep the pad clean and have extras on hand. On a bad dark-colored car, I can literally go through 3 pads.



f. Donâ€â„¢t rush. Be patient. I hit a panel, back up and light a cigarette. If you donâ€â„¢t smoke, substitute a smoke for a drink. Look at the panel from various angles.



g. Polish panel till faint trace remains â€â€œ NOT DRY.



h. To prevent hop . . . slow down the speed, use a spritz, and donâ€â„¢t push the pad.



Again, this works for me and is certainly not a prescription for everyone else. Sorry for the lengthy reply and most importantly I hope this helps.

[Bill D]

Spilchy,



I though I read somewhere that color can be a real PITA, rivaling black.



I know what you mean about the side panels, that`s why I`m reluctant to expand my practicing to these areas but I am going to give another shot soon using the 1z polishes , I understand they work best under low rpms and stay as wet as long as you want: maybe that can be a solution to the hoping issues.



I`ve also tried a tip from Anthony O. to follow with another pass but leaving the polish still wet, I guess the idea behind that is that it might erase the holograms installed from the previous pass where the polish was buffed until almost dry or almost gone :nixweiss



Nothing wrong with following up with the PC in the very end as well. I feel a little better about that reading some of the best of the best may do this.

[Spilchy]

Thanks for the tips fellas :up



So Bill, you mean to say that after you make your final pass, put a bit more polish on, make another pass ot two and buff off wet?

[Bill D]

Yep, I tried that a few times, unless I misunderstood Anthony and shouldn`t be doing that, but the results seem just fine, at worst what I did is waste more polish unnecessarily.



I ought to see how 1z reacts via rotary, I`ve been putting that off for some time now.

[Accumulator]

Spilchy- yeah, before you get all frustrated, I`d try something other than the #80, which I like, but not by rotary.



1Z stuff seems very rotary user-friendly. So are 3M`s PI-III RC and MG, but they can leave holograms too.



IMO, following up with a PC/Cyclo can be a fine solution. Although it would be swell to really master the rotary post haste, since you`ve already rotaried-away the bad marring, I would use a pretty gentle approach to remove the holograms. No sense in taking off more paint than you need to and holograms usually aren`t too deep.



A sorta-aggressive PCing with the #80 might just fix things for you.

[Spilchy]

Thanks Accum :up



You think #80 is aggressive via rotary? I thought it would be just fine. It cleared up a lot of surface defects however (not all).



I have never worked with the 3M products. What is PI-III RC? I can`t find the acronym list given the new site.



Maybe I can try that and follow up with the 3M MG via PC or #80 (with a polish pad).



I am trying to achieve that glaze look I get with VM or Menzerna FTG (my typicals before a LSP).



I am trying to achieve this by staying to my 3 step routine of polish, glaze, LSP.

[Bill D]

Perfect It III Rubbing Compound

[Gonzo]

Spilchy,

With a Makita 9227,I`ve used Menzerna PG @ #1 w/LC yellow, 1Z PP @ #1-1.5 w/LC white and Menzerna FP @ #1.5-2 w/LC charcoal and have had considerable success polishing. The only time I got holos was when I was tired and moving the buffer across the paint too quickly. Never got them when moving it slowly. I think the key for us rotary noobs is to work the buffer slowly at low RPM.

[Eliot Ness]

Originally posted by Spilchy

.......What is PI-III RC? I can`t find the acronym list given the new site.........

Here`s the link to the acronym list Spilchy, although I don`t think the 3M PI III RC and MG (machine glaze) is on it (but you know what they are now anyway).



http://www.autopia.org/display.php?f....htm&s=&menu=8

[Accumulator]

Originally posted by Spilchy

You think #80 is aggressive via rotary? I thought it would be just fine. It cleared up a lot of surface defects however (not all).



I have never worked with the 3M products. What is PI-III RC? I can`t find the acronym list given the new site.



Maybe I can try that and follow up with the 3M MG via PC or #80 (with a polish pad).



I am trying to achieve that glaze look I get with VM or Menzerna FTG (my typicals before a LSP).



I am trying to achieve this by staying to my 3 step routine of polish, glaze, LSP.

Trying to stay with three steps can be tricky with the rotary, often you need to use both it *and* the PC- extra step there. And some products that let you get away with fewer steps don`t always lend themselves to every situation.



I don`t like #80 by rotary. Maybe it`s how it breaks down...I dunno, I just prefer it as a PC/Cyclo product.



The PI-III RC works well by PC, but the MG might be all you need. You might also try the MG the next time you use the rotary, I think you might like it better for that than the #80.



But you won`t get the "glaze look" with the 3M stuff since it doesn`t have all the oils that the #80 leaves behind.



I can`t help but think that sometimes a few extra, *but easier* steps can be a good way to go. I get the heavy work out of the way with the rotary and then use the PC/Cyclo for as much as I can. But I know plenty of other people like to do most everything with the rotary. Just gotta find what works best for you.

[Anthony O.]

Try IP with a white LC pad and then follow that with FP and a LC finishing pad.



The finer the product and pad the fewer the swirls. Swirls can still be inroduced into the paint even if the pad is held completely flat because buffer swirls are micro-scratches left over from the cutting or leveling properties of the product and/or pad. For a winning finish use a PC or Cyclo with finishing pads and another round of FP, move real slow over a small area at a time and then seal it up.



A dirty pad causes swirls also and instead of applying the product to the pad then smearing it around the paint try placing a squeeze of the product directly on the paint, in one concentrated area, then place the polishing pad directly on top of that "drop" and begin buffing. This will have the product cut faster and also work longer. Applying the product in a ring on the pad then smearing it into the paint causes the product to start evaporating, losing lubrication but leaving the abrasive properties.



Hope that helps,

Anthony

[Bill D]

Originally posted by Anthony Orosco

instead of applying the product to the pad then smearing it around the paint try placing a squeeze of the product directly on the paint, in one concentrated area, then place the polishing pad directly on top of that "drop" and begin buffing. This will have the product cut faster and also work longer. Applying the product in a ring on the pad then smearing it into the paint causes the product to start evaporating, losing lubrication but leaving the abrasive properties.

Anthony,



Does this apply to the PC/Cyclo?

If so, I`ll start doing this with all three machines, seems more idiot proof than laying down a line of polish when using the rotary.

[Anthony O.]

Bill,



Personally I only do this with the rotary. For the Cyclo I apply it directly to the pads then place pads on the paint and away we go



Take care,

Anthony

[Accumulator]

Same here, with the Cyclo I put it on the pads.



One thing to watch with the product-directly-on-paint method is that with *some* products you don`t want to wait too long before you start to work them. Meg`s #2, for instance, can start doing its chemical-cleaner thing in an undesirable way if you put it on the paint and get distracted instead of working it right away.