Does Waxing Contribute to Acid Rain Damage?

[Setec Astronomy]

I have a 14 yo darkish blue metallic clearcoat Pontiac which I have had since new, and has some pretty damaged paint on the horizontal surfaces. I have not been entirely "Autopian" over the life of the car, but it has always been garaged, and has been waxed more often than not. It has been through some dirty periods, owing to life, water shortages, etc. The paint now is covered with etch marks of all different shapes, sizes and depths, ranging from pin-point pits to large "water spot" shaped marks, the result, I guess of 14 years of acid rain, birds, sap, fallout, unremoved rinse water, something. Some of these spots are craters, some are just perturbations visible from the right angle (which may wind up being craters).



My question is this: I recently worked on two Toyotas. They were light colored, a ’94 Camry with a pale blue metallic paint, owned by a little old lady (only 24K miles), and a ’99 Avalon, in a champagne color. These two vehicles didn’t seem to really exhibit any water spotting damage, and I would say that the ’94 has probably never been waxed, and the ’99 hasn’t been waxed in the last several years.



Why don`t they have the "water spots"? Is the Toyota paint better? Is the damage less visible due to the light color? OR...is it that the poor maintenance caused the water to sheet distributing paint contaminants over a wider area and "diluting" them?



Does anyone remember that wax from a few years ago that was advertised to sheet rather than bead to prevent acid rain damage? I can`t remember the name, but it was an instant flop because everyone wanted the beading.



I`m just trying to understand the mechanism so my next car won`t look like this one at 14 yo.

[Bill D]

I`m pretty sure that flop product that sheets was called Dura Shine. I had it, used to be sold at Pep Boys. Natural wax looked a lot better and lasted longer as I remember.

[togwt]

Quote: Does Waxing Contribute to Acid Rain Damage?



~ One man’s opinion / observations ~

The answer to your question above is no, wax is used primarily as protection and as a sacrificial coating that can be renewed



a) Q: Why don`t they have the "water spots"?

A: I can only assume that different types of paint have different reactions to ‘water spots’





b) Q: Does anyone remember that wax from a few years ago that was advertised to sheet rather than bead to prevent acid rain damage? I can`t remember the name, but it was an instant flop because everyone wanted the beading.



A: I think that product was called Durashine



Carnauba Wax is inherently hydroscopic when exposed to water; wax swells and closes its pores, which along with surface tension, causes ‘water beading’



Polymers are hydrophobic, water beading is caused by high surface tension; `water sheeting` is due to the molecular structure of polymers



The down side of `water beading` is that it may cause chemical etching if combined with airborne pollutants or due to the water bead creating a magnifier for the suns rays if they are left to dry on the paint film surface.



~Hope this helps ~



Knowledge unshared is experience wasted

justadumbarchitect / so I question everything/ Jon

[Setec Astronomy]

Nobody`s gonna jump on me for suggesting waxing is bad? :nixweiss

[shaf]

Originally posted by Setec Astronomy

Nobody`s gonna jump on me for suggesting waxing is bad? :nixweiss

What, are you a masochist or something?



I think it might very well be the light coloured paint. I`ve worked on dark or black cars, and let me tell you they get incredibly hot in direct sunlight. Silver or very light colours get "hot" but not nearly as bad.



If you let dirty, polluted water dry out on paint, it super-concentrates and probably creates more damage when heated a lot, since that increases a chemical`s effectiveness.



Just my arm-waving theory, but I don`t think it`s unreasonable.



I vaguely remember an older discussion about water beads creating mini-magnifying glasses, and I think the conclusion about that was that the issue is over-exaggerated.





I understand the question you bring up about waxing a car and the fact that water doesn`t sheet or run off as easily, but it`s a fairly unusual circumstance for us here.... Basically you are speculating if it would be better for a careless owner to NOT wax his car in order to avoid water spot damage. I suppose the million dollar question would be if the damage is worse if the paint were left unwaxed, versus the possible damage that might result from water left to bead and dry up... interesting.... still, there is a lot of different factors and speculation going on with this. :nixweiss

[jerry@robs]

To be honest, i have had VERY LITTLE problems with waterspotting with my Corolla ever since... swirls are easy to come by but waterspots aren`t a prob with my Corolla. Honda`s are a pain with waterspots though.

[Matt M, PA]

This is something I have wondered about myself.



From what I have gleaned...there is no wax-polish, etc that is going to prevent acid rain. When you think of the ordeal it is to remove paint with solvents, abrasives, etc...it`s easy to see that if acid rain can indeed etch the paint...there is no "applied" product that will eliminate this effect. I guess in other words....if solvent based paints are harmed by acid rain...simple wax isn`t going to be much of a deterent.



All the above said, my cars that are exceptionally well maintained but kept outside, show signs (albiet slight) of acid rain. My Mother`s CL is garaged, but not maintained to the same degree , yet shows no acid rain damage. Her car is out every day rain or shine.



I have often thought that maybe we do not clean our paint thoroughly enough, before waxing...and that maybe this "seals" in the acids? Before a wax, I wash my vehicles with a strong soap mix and baking soda, in hopes that I am not simply driving the acids further into the finish. Furthermore, could those of us who wax often are just making matters worse by sealing this acid in.



As I understand acid rain...after rain, the water evaporates and leaves behind this acid. The acid lays dormant until the next time it is wetted...then it bite into the finish.



I seem to remember that someone offers a sort of cleaning kit, that is designed to clean off acid rain...but I do not remember where I saw it.

[Setec Astronomy]

Now we`re getting somewhere! From an engineering standpoint, I can see both sides of the argument about whether the acid remains in the paint (and whether it would be neutralized by normal car wash, which is alkaline).



Automotive International claims it does stay in the paint, and provides a neutralization suite of products, probably the one you are thinking of.

http://www.autoint.com/magazine/acid_rain.html



However, I have found no other supplier who makes something similar or claims it is necessary.



4DSC, I think the heat absorbtion of the darker colors is definitely a factor, for the reasons you state and faster evaporation (Matt M, what color are the cars you mentioned?). I also agree the lensing effect is minimal because the paint has it`s own drop of coolant covering it!



On the sheeting/beading issue...doesn`t anyone remember the name of that wax?

[Matt M, PA]

Mike---I think you are right about the acid wash company...that sounds right.



I too would love a real answer to stop or slow down acid rain etching...it bugs me big time.



To answer the color question. My `94 Bronco is an electric blue, and a few years ago I actually had the hood and roof re-cleared thanks to acid rain. My `03 Cobra is silver and is starting to show slight acid rain under bright lights...but youhave to look for it. My Mom`s CL is champagne.

[Bill D]

I believe the system(s) you may be referring to are Finish Kare`s three step wash and Auto Int. Valugard`s A-B-C wash system.

[Setec Astronomy]

Originally posted by Bill D

I believe the system(s) you may be referring to are Finish Kare`s three step wash and Auto Int. Valugard`s A-B-C wash system.

Thanks for pointing out the Finish Kare, I`ll research that.

[lbls1]

Sorry I mean not to offend, but the notion of wax contributing to acid rain and environmental damage to a paint`s finish is pure folly.



Wax does the exact opposite......it will protect you from most climate conditions including acid rain. I sound like a broken record with this line sometimes, but my previous new car I owned for 8 years (it is now 11) I`ve used nothing but over the counter carnauba wax, and it maintained its original shine, with no garage, or car cover. Nothing but the unadulterated elements from the eastern seaboard!!! Not having wax on the car, or worse still, neglecting the care of the paint with at least a consistent cleaning regimen, will leave the paint vunerable to contaminants and acid rain.



PS: the subject car was a good ol`, unreliable, but sturdy American made car....manufactured in Canada! lol!!

[SR77]

Yes, I agree that a waxed car is better then a non waxed car. The one thing I can`t figure out through is why do wax manufacturers make wax bead instead of sheet. If the wax beads then you do get to some degree a magnifing action and also when the beads dry then the contaminents are left on the paint as water spots that can do damage if not washed off. If the wax was made to sheet though instead there would be no beads that magnify or to leave the damaging water spots and contaimenants on the paint. Plus the car would probablt stay cleaner looking after a rain storm. Why don`t wax manufacturers develop their products to sheet instead of bead and why don`t we see more of these waxes on the market today?