NXT, Hype Or Just Perspective?

[Wang]

Scottwax, funny thing, I am also looking for a suitable "reserved" looking bottle to pour my NXT into, so that the neighbors won`t see the budding young risk taking experimenter side of me. I have a family, you know, but sometimes I just cant resist taking my old skateboard down the hill in one speedy hillbomb exercise :^).

[imported_BretFraz]

Originally posted by DETAILKING

One must be careful not too confuse chemical bonding with physical bonding. A chemical bond is one that links atoms together. Examples of a physical bond would be glue, sealants, adhesives, PAINT, and some automotive polishes and waxes. It bonds in the sense that it adheres to the surface just like paint does, but no chemical reaction is ocurring involving the paint....just the polymer (as it crosslinks and cures into a durable coating).



I don`t buy the the bonding over oils case. One of 2 things will happen if it is in fact a curing, crosslinking polymer. Durability will be reduced, or the product has enough (cleaners - solvents, abrasives) to remove the oils. Think of what would happen if you applied paint over an oily surface. How about trying to glue together 2 pieces of plastic with an oily film on them? The truth is that even if there are micrscopic hills and valleys (which help durability and bonding giving the polymer a surface to "bite" against - example sanding before painting) the polymer will tend to want to fill in these voids as well, and will be negated by the oils. If any oils are trapped underneath.....what happens when those oils want to thermally expand in heat? All leads to an unstable system and ultimately a decrease in optimum durabilty.............

WHEW!!!



I`m glad someone like DK came along to bail me out.

[SergC]

DETAILKING Rules !

[BradE]

Originally posted by SergC

DETAILKING Rules !

I`ll second that. Great post Bill.

[SergC]

Appearance is important,but being in 100F+ temperature over 6 months, I afraid, that those oils will not hold up very well for weeks...









Zaino to the rescue or SG

[NozeBleedSpeed]

DETAILKING, that connects a lot of stray dots for me. Thank you for that time and effort.

[Wang]

Welp, back from Walmart with my NXT spray wax ($4.35), can`t wait to give it a shot over fresh NXT tech wax. It says it is used to maintain teh NXT tech wax, but I want to see what it does for a fresh NXT finish.



more later.

[Wang]

Tried it on my hood. It increased and made sharper the reflections off my hood. Not sure how long it will last, but its definitely a sharper reflection now. With the increase in sharper reflection brought out(makes more prominent) some fine scratches that I have on my brand new paintjob.



Result: sharper reflections and slicker feel. brought out some fine scratches- cant explain it, maybe someone here has an idea why.

[shaf]

Boy, this discussion sure has gotten interesting just lately.

Originally posted by Jeff Laughhunn

One of the main advantages of NXT, from what I`ve read, is something I don`t see mentioned often. Namely, that it can be applied over a glaze, or over even a carnauba. I know that neither Klasse or Zaino can be successfully applied over these. If this is the case, I think this gives NXT a significant niche, namely protection without "prescribed only" preparation. Are there _any_ other good sealants which can do this?

Jeff Laughhunn

I vaguely recall a few other "new" products that were being tried by many members in the last couple years, and that at least a couple of them were supposedly or reportedly "able to be applied over a glaze", unlike the standbys Zaino and Klasse.



Whether this worked well or not, I don`t remember, but I think it`s interesting that some of the initial results and comments about NXT seem quite similar to these products so far, and there have even been some comparisons. It`s also interesting to note that these products don`t seem to be discussed or possibly even used with much frequency anymore. Time will tell. The good products persist, while the pretenders fall by the wayside.



In the meantime, I hope people keep an open mind when approaching something new and different.

[Wang]

Why would I want to apply a sealant over carnauba which is softer. Id rather put the strong stuff next to the paint and carnauba on top to promote a carnauba shine. I have always thought of synthetic sealants to be artificial by definition, but NXT gives a depth and clarity of shine like carnauba and a wetness that is, well very intense when layered. Some prefer the naturalness of carnauba, its soft, deep, wet, clear all a the same time. But carnauba doesnt last, melts in the sun, smears, holds dirt, etc. Good synthetic sealants won`t do that and lasts longer, but appearance wise, there may be a compromise. Maybe that is the dream of these detail companies is to come up with a product as nice in aesthetics as carnauba, but with the durability of diamond :^) and with the ease of application as the finest glazes. Wow, what a dream!

[imported_ajbarnes]

You know, judging from the previous posts in this thread, alot of us here on Autopia should either be working for or starting our own Auto care manufacturing business. It`s astonishing to see a group of people who take the art of detailing to not just the beauty results, but down to the bone of scientific attributes of waxes, polishes, etc.



Hats off to Autopians!:xyxthumbs





>Needed to lighten up the tension a little bit too. <

[imported_memnuts]

Originally posted by DETAILKING

what happens when those oils want to thermally expand in heat? All leads to an unstable system and ultimately a decrease in optimum durabilty.............

Before anyone stops threading water



The reason I used "physical" chemistry is to illustrate that NXT, in this example, is performing as is stated - adhering to the painted surface not altering science as previous thread implied. I am quite verse in the differences you were stating.



Your point about painting is a very good example. I am sure we all along the way in haste attempted painting a "contaminated" surface. Though the paint appeared to adhered, some time later it eventually chipped or fell off. Until that time the paint remained in place. That is my point about oil contamination and sealant adhersion to that said surface. May not last very long but it is still present and expressing it "appearance" values ( i.e. Zaino reflectivity and gloss). Obviously durability was compromised.



We could go into hydrophilic, hydrophobic, molecular weight and the displacement issues here and the part they could possibly play in the displacing products from valleys and surface depressions. Beyond this discussion without structural ( molecular) data.

Another technical issue is the lattice structure (formed via cross-linking) and its expandibility and permeability during changing ambient conditions. Again, we just do not have the technical data. Our observations are only empirical.

DK we are on the same page (on many levels) in this discussion. Thanks for pointing out the grey areas involved in this discussion.



I love reading the ying-and-yang, valid viewpoints on both sides and food for thought, about this subject and the obvious dipolar camps - ultimate appearance and ultimate durability. Just like old times.

Maybe some day there will be a product that offers both apexices with proper documentation (ingredients match what the product claims) and uniform result reportings from all users.

:wavey

[Douxebris]

Boy, this discussion sure has gotten interesting just lately.

Hopefully I`ve gained enough knowledge from you Autopians, that I can at least start asking intelligent questions. **********:smilie(``)



All of the discertations / chemistry lessons drawn out in this thread are invaluable to me, and I appreciate everyone`s honest take on the processes involved. Of course, I only remember the chemistry I didn`t sleep through in highschool 20 years ago, so I can be easily convinced by either camp. **********:smilie(`:nixweiss`)



I was on a car-care-list a couple years ago, and got into an exchange with several who were touting the virtues of a "Miracle" wax with Teflon in it. Lasted for years, blah blah. So, I took them to task, thinking I could _never_ be convinced that Teflon could be a viable ingredient to a car finish. Longstoryshort, I was eventually put in my place, by the owner of the company that sold such a wax, and he supported his claims by directing me to his patent information at the US Patent Office. I looked, saw the claims as well as the process submitted and accepted by the Patent Office (IIRC, had something to do with Cationic/Ionic charges creating a bond); and me and my Highschool Chemistry had to accept what he claimed was true. I sure wish that discussion would`ve transpired here on Autopia, because I don`t believe it would have ended so abruptly.



Of course, I never did buy that $100 bottle of wax he was selling, either.



Jeff Laughhunn

[imported_memnuts]

Originally posted by Jeff Laughhunn

Hopefully I`ve gained enough knowledge from you Autopians, that I can at least start asking intelligent questions. **********:smilie(``)

The only unintelligent question is one not asked.

All of the discertations / chemistry lessons drawn out in this thread are invaluable to me, and I appreciate everyone`s honest take on the processes involved. Of course, I only remember the chemistry I didn`t sleep through in highschool 20 years ago, so I can be easily convinced by either camp. **********:smilie(`:nixweiss`)[/B]

And you thought chemistry had no bearing in your future endeavors ( hobby)

I was on a car-care-list a couple years ago, and got into an exchange with several who were touting the virtues of a "Miracle" wax with Teflon in it. Lasted for years, blah blah. So, I took them to task, thinking I could _never_ be convinced that Teflon could be a viable ingredient to a car finish. Longstoryshort, I was eventually put in my place, by the owner of the company that sold such a wax, and he supported his claims by directing me to his patent information at the US Patent Office. I looked, saw the claims as well as the process submitted and accepted by the Patent Office (IIRC, had something to do with Cationic/Ionic charges creating a bond); and me and my Highschool Chemistry had to accept what he claimed was true. I sure wish that discussion would`ve transpired here on Autopia, because I don`t believe it would have ended so abruptly.



Of course, I never did buy that $100 bottle of wax he was selling, either.[/B]

Great move Jeff.

[beanbag]

Originally posted by DETAILKING

One must be careful not too confuse chemical bonding with physical bonding. A chemical bond is one that links atoms together. Examples of a physical bond would be glue, sealants, adhesives, PAINT, and some automotive polishes and waxes. It bonds in the sense that it adheres to the surface just like paint does, but no chemical reaction is ocurring involving the paint....just the polymer (as it crosslinks and cures into a durable coating).



There are many different mechanisms for adhesion. How does epoxy stick to atomically flat sapphire, then?



I don`t buy the the bonding over oils case. One of 2 things will happen if it is in fact a curing, crosslinking polymer. Durability will be reduced, or the product has enough (cleaners - solvents, abrasives) to remove the oils.





Or the act of rubbing is enough to push polymers onto the paint surface and the polymer doesn`t care if there are some oil molecules in it.



Think of what would happen if you applied paint over an oily surface. How about trying to glue together 2 pieces of plastic with an oily film on them?



How about dipping your fingers in oil, then putting a dab of superglue between them, and then pressing your fingers together? Do you know if polymer sealants on glaze is more like the former or latter?



The truth is that even if there are micrscopic hills and valleys (which help durability and bonding giving the polymer a surface to "bite" against - example sanding before painting) the polymer will tend to want to fill in these voids as well, and will be negated by the oils. If any oils are trapped underneath.....what happens when those oils want to thermally expand in heat?



Nothing. The length scales are too small for any differential thermal expansion to matter.



All leads to an unstable system and ultimately a decrease in optimum durabilty.............

Do you think a sealant can be made less durable than a carnauba wax under these circumstances then?