woolite + leather question??

T

tsx2004

WaffleWeed
hi everyone,

i have a scenario to tell you all and i want your opinion on this. ok here it goes.

lets say i go over my leather with a 1:6(1=woolite, 6=water) diluted woolite on my leather to take off the dust and spots. afterwards i apply fourstar leather conditioner on my leather for protection and smoothness.

i wait a a couple of weeks and afterwards, i go over my leather with diluted woolite again and this time, i apply aerospace 303 protectant on my leather for further protection on my leather.

now, my question is this: assume i already have fourstar on my leather, would going over my leather with diluted woolite before applying 303 strip off the fourstar product??

i want the maximum protection for my leather but i dont want to apply 303 if the woolite strips off the fourstar conditioner. i appreciate the inputs and hopefully someone can help me out.

tsx2004
 
Can't help on this one. I use leather cleaner and conditioner right out of the bottle. There are some things I like a home remedy for, but leather care is something I leave to the professionals. Wolfgang and Four Star have never steered me wrong yet, so I'll stick with those. :)
 
now, my question is this: assume i already have fourstar on my leather, would going over my leather with diluted woolite before applying 303 strip off the fourstar product??



Well the conditioner is soaking into or conditioning the leather with its aloe or lanolyn or whatever it is that keeps it from craking.

So the woolite will clean it and the cionditioner helps it stay plyable .

Use the woolite for regular cleaning and condition every 1 to 2 months depending on usage and sun exposer.
 
There's a guy on an owner's website that I post to who works in the leather industry. He advises against using watered down Woolite on leather. I can't remember his reasoning.
 
btw, Woolite in Canada is "Zero", also called, "Zero by Woolite"
Took me a while to figure it out.
 
OK. I found the post I mentioned above.
OK...here is the lowdown on Woolite. The original formula was in the vicinity of that which is supposed to be used on leather, but the formula has been changed and now the pH is right around 7.0. Remember the proper pH is supposed to be around 4.5. For example, the pH of The Townsend Leather/Leather Institute products are in the range of 4.5 to 5.5.

Woolite is formulated at around 7.0, which is also the pH of regular water...fine to be drank, but a little high to be used on leather. Now what I have been hearing is the dilution theory, that you can dilute the cleaner down 6:1 with water and then it can be used on leather.

Here are the two faults:
1. You are starting with a product that actually has an improper pH for leather, while it isn’t as bad as using some of the garbage out there, there are certainly better solutions.

2. The dilution... after adding all that water, you then have such a weak solution that you might as well be using water on the leather which we have already said is not good to use over the long term.

To sum it up, there are certainly better products you can use on your leather than Woolite, namely those made by companies that solely deal in leather. On the other side of the card, we have seen products that are said to be safe on leather that are actually worse than using Woolite.

For those of you who forgot what the importance of pH is, if the cleaner has too high of a pH, the leather fibers will actually start breaking away from one another as the protein bonds that hold them together weaken and you will eventually be able to tear your leather just like you would a piece of paper. We saw an example of this on an airline, within a month of using an improper pH cleaner a couple times a week, every seat had to be replaced as they were tearing apart everywhere, cost millions of dollars to replace. Obviously you won’t be cleaning your seats twice a week, but if you plan to keep you car for a few years this could definitely come into play. Especially since the cleaner can easily access the leather through the perforations.

My personal opinion:

For the little bit of cleaner you will need to do the seats of your much loved possesion, I would spring for the right products. These products really will never go bad so you can buy in larger quantities and get the bulk size discounts. Even just buying a quart of the right cleaner should last a couple years on your S. As for conditioner, you will use approximately 1/4 of the amount of cleaner you use as not much is necessary at all.
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While I don't disagree with what he says since I have no idea as to the validity of his comments, I do have a question.
Any chance he is associated with Townsend Leather/Leather Institute products?

The use of Woolite/water I picked up from a repected detailer on another site. That sure doesn't mean that he is right either.

My use of Woolite & water is not cost related, but becuase of the cleaning it does and the fact that I thought it to be harmless to the leather.
FWIW, it does do a pretty good job of cleaning even at the 6:1 dilution ratio.

Anyway, it does give me a reason to rethink my process. Maybe a regular leather cleaner might be the better choice.

Charles
 
I agree with Charles . There might be a better product out there . The diluted woolite is the best cleaner out there for me. I have done some pretty bad cars that people don't do anything with the leather . So I have to get the best cleaner I know of to get good results . Then condition .

One question about PH . Whats the scale of high and low ? While the poster says ph 4.5 is recommended and woolite is ph 7 . On a scale off what ? 1 to 10 ? or 1 to 1000.

I wonder what the PH balance of the cleaner they used on the aircraft seats ? Was it higher than 10? or 50? or 100?

Not enough info for me to stop using woolite mix . When diluted it works better . After woolite I always follow with a conditioner.

Whats the PH of SGreen
 
The ph scale goes from 1-14 with the low end being acid and the high end alkaline. Obviously 7 would be neutral.
 
CharlesW said:
While I don't disagree with what he says since I have no idea as to the validity of his comments, I do have a question.
Any chance he is associated with Townsend Leather/Leather Institute products?
Click to expand...

He does work there. However, I have seen many many posts about leather/leather cleaners from this guy and he does not bash products methods just because they are not the ones he prefers or the company he works for.
 
Townsend Leather/Leather Institute emplyee said:
OK...here is the lowdown on Woolite. The original formula was in the vicinity of that which is supposed to be used on leather, but the formula has been changed and now the pH is right around 7.0. Remember the proper pH is supposed to be around 4.5. For example, the pH of The Townsend Leather/Leather Institute products are in the range of 4.5 to 5.5.

Woolite is formulated at around 7.0, which is also the pH of regular water...fine to be drank, but a little high to be used on leather. Now what I have been hearing is the dilution theory, that you can dilute the cleaner down 6:1 with water and then it can be used on leather.
Click to expand...
pogo123 said:
The ph scale goes from 1-14 with the low end being acid and the high end alkaline. Obviously 7 would be neutral.
Click to expand...

As usual, I'm in over my head, but if 7 is a neutral PH, how much better could you want since it is neither acidic or alkaline?

The ph of 4.5 seems to be towards the acidic end of the scale and I wouldn't think acidic would be the best thing for leather.

Now, a couple of things.
1. Not trying to start an argument about something I know nothing about.
2. Whatever/whoever you choose to believe is perfectly fine with me.

Sometime back I posted some information I received from Leatherique, (A fairly repected name in leather care), and the information was almost considered to be totally incorrect. Hey, I have no idea, I just know what works for me. 64 months 48,000 miles on GM leather in the Wife's GTP and still like new makes me hesitant to change anything.

Interesting discussion and nothing personal intended in any of my posts.

Charles
 
Logically the pH argument makes sense, you don't always want to have a neutral pH product, you want to match the acidity to the surface you are woking with, otherwise you'll dilute the suface and change it's chemical charachteristics. If you saturate something of pH 4.5 (leather in this case) with something of pH 7 (woolite water mix) then the effective pH of the surface at the end of all of it is somewhat higher than 4.5. If you increase the acidity of something you will make it more resistant to deterioration because bacteria don't live as long in acidic environments, on the other hand the less acidic environment will harbor more bacterial growth and activity, this leads to a lower life expectancy of the leather. You'd have to be a chemist to get into much more detail about how this all works but I hope this adds to the clarity of the above statements more.
 
tubafeak said:
Logically the pH argument makes sense, you don't always want to have a neutral pH product, you want to match the acidity to the surface you are woking with, otherwise you'll dilute the suface and change it's chemical charachteristics. If you saturate something of pH 4.5 (leather in this case) with something of pH 7 (woolite water mix) then the effective pH of the surface at the end of all of it is somewhat higher than 4.5. If you increase the acidity of something you will make it more resistant to deterioration because bacteria don't live as long in acidic environments, on the other hand the less acidic environment will harbor more bacterial growth and activity, this leads to a lower life expectancy of the leather. You'd have to be a chemist to get into much more detail about how this all works but I hope this adds to the clarity of the above statements more.
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Yes it does help.
My head hurts now, but I do know more than I did. I think I even understand some of it.:)

Charles
 
So does this mean that you through a dash of vinegar in your woolite to make it on the acid side. The leather gets dirty , a alkaine solution will clean better then a acid, and a neutral solution will also be safe. You could always use a leather cleaner if you feel woolite is to harsh. An acid will clean lime and other mineral deposits. An alkaine will clean dirt and oil.
 
Larry A said:
So does this mean that you through a dash of vinegar in your woolite to make it on the acid side. The leather gets dirty , a alkaine solution will clean better then a acid, and a neutral solution will also be safe. You could always use a leather cleaner if you feel woolite is to harsh. An acid will clean lime and other mineral deposits. An alkaine will clean dirt and oil.
Click to expand...
That seems like being too much of a chemist for me.
If the Woolite & water at 6:1 is actually bad for the leather, I would rather just use a dedicated leather cleaner.
The thing I feel bad about is the number of times I have recommended the Woolite & water mix to people and I may have been leading them astray all this time. I'm still not totally convinced that wiping your leather off with the Woolite solution weekly is going to damage the leather. As far as a neutral ph (7) not being good for the leather, I think water (ph7) is the recommended cleaning agent by most manufacturers. :dontgetit

Charles
 
For weekly wipeoffs you're probably still cool, the pH issue with bacteria growth is mostly for leather that's left to sit, well-maintained wouldn't have this problem, it's a different animal entirely. As for adding vinegar, how good are you at calculating molarity? You'd need a ton of vinegar with just a little bit of Woolite/water to get to the pH you'd need. After all of the calculations, or guessing, you'd done it would have been easier to go to work, earn money, buy really nice leather cleaner and really nice leather conditioner and have the right tools for the job, stuff that you know will be good for your leather.

BTW, I'm not saying that people blow off work to calculate molarity, I personally do that at work (I love student jobs, lots of homework time), I'm just saying it's better and easier to just leave it to the professional chemists who get paid a bunch to make up leather care products.
 
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