With polymer's, what's your priority? Durability, shine or ease-of-use? I......

B

Bob Post

New member
want the maximum shine first (hey, who wants to go through all that work for nothing?) then durability, followed by EOU. With all the different products and different application methods and shines, I'm flabbergasted at the differences. (Mainly between Zaino, Klasse and the new stuff, BlackFire) I'm about to purchase one of these "systems" after much study and lurking. My "general" assesement of each product is:



Zaino is the most labor-intensive product, as well as the most expensive. Almost nobody uses Carnuba over it. I guess it gives a

"brighter" shine which can't be matched. I hear it's great for most colors except blk. (Only because it gives blk cars a glossy "mirror" type shine and most blk car owner like a deeper, wetter carnuba "look".)



Klasse supposedly fits into that niche the Zaino leaves with blk cars, although it's supposedly good for most colors. I hear it's easier to use than the multiple-steps of Zaino, and most important is that you can use Carnuba over it to give it that extra-deep, wet Carnuba look. I guess the price is moderate and like Zaino, is a proven product with lot's of supporters.



BlackFire is the new kid and supposedly was designed around ease-of-use. (By virtue of the previous post from product engineers stating this. They drastically cut down the cure time compared to the other products) They did admit the comprimise was in the shine dept compared to the other 2 products. Price is also moderate and some say they got a good shine from it, and some had slight problems.



So I guess Zaino is the shiniest and lasts long, Klasse is great for blk and BlackFire is the easiest to use. Since I have a blk german car I think Klasse may be the best product for my application. I would love to try Zaino but that pic of that Zaino'ed TransAm looks so bright it would blind me! Since I dote over the car so much durability is not as important, since I'm constantly applying something. For a blk car, is this a good choice in your experience?
 
I think from my short term experience with Zaino that black is not a reason to use Klasse and Carnuba topper. If one preps ( which you must do for any surface protectant ) well and eliminate as many flaws ( swirl marks ) as possible and use Z5 to complete the swirl marks elimination by filling you can achieve a dark and deep appearing black finish. The Z5 seems to correct the distorted optics created by the swirls to give in return the same depthness as carnuba but with increased glossiness. I use the Zaino products because of the depth and evenness it gives to my car. With each additional coat the depth of the paint increases and also the blackness of the black improves. Check out my pic's in thread "My Zaino'd black Z28 convertible"

After the initial prep Zaino is extremely easy to use. Apply very thin coat go have a beer or detail the wheels, interior, glass , etc and a hour later( if dry ) wipe off. It wipe off easily if dry.
 
Zaino is no different than the rest for ease of use.



I am confused why everyone thinks it is difficult. For any of the products above the prep work is identical:



Dawn wash, clay, swirl remove etc etc etc



With Klasse you use 1-3 coats of AIO than 1-5 coats of SG. Carnuba toppers are optional. All coats buffed prior to next after curing. No one coat of each is probably enough for protection but for looks most apply more.



With Zaino 1 coat of Z1 apply Z2, 3 or 5 then buff. Cure. Z6 then apply optional coats of either Z2, 3 or 5. Now with ZFX the Z1 step is emliminated and up to 3 coats per day can be applied.



I have used both above and they are not that much different. Except I think Z is easier to remove.



I have no experience with Blackfire so NO COMMENT.



I believe all offer the same in protection or so darn close who can tell the difference. If the look is important I say experiemnt with all three. Break that hood down into 3 panels and test them for us. I would be curious to see results of 6 months or so.
 
I think what scares most people about Zainos use, is that on the website it states that if it is humid or cold it can take hours to dry, before buffing it off.



Quoted from zainobros.com

"Let Z-5 or Z-2 polish dry at least one hour. Please NOTE: Zaino Show Car Polish works best at 60 degrees or higher. However, it can be applied down to temperatures of 45 degrees. It just will take much, much longer to dry. As much as two to three hours drying time is required if the temperature is 50 degrees or below. Also, If the humidity is high. Longer drying time is necessary. Humidity is a killer on the drying time of Z-2 or Z-5. The moisture in the air hinders drying time up to four times longer than normal. Sorry, but I can't help this."



But now with ZFX this has been reduced dramatically but costs an extra 20 dollars.

Zaino is an excellent product from what I hear, it just seems too time consuming considering I live in what could be the most humid state in the nation.
 
I dunno, maybe it is the length of the directions.



Is there any USER of Z that finds it difficult to use?



Is there any USER of K that finds it difficult to use?
 
The cost is not that much different, I don't know why people have it in their minds that zaino is SOO much more expensive. Also, when you add in a carnuba to the KLASSE side, it really evens things out....and even gives the edge to zaino.



As far as work, again, they are about the same. Zaino takes a bit longer to dry than KLASSE, but in my experience it is easier to buff off. Again, we are splitting hairs. If you are going to use ZFX, then Zaino truely is fewer steps once the car is properly prepped. Also, ZFX really improves dry time. What used to take some people an hour now takes under 20 minutes with ZFX with dry time.



I would research them both, and use what you think will best fit your needs, time, and desires.



I look for shine, ease of use, and durability. I don't look for durabity in it's traditional sense of how long the car beads. I don't really care if a products LASTS 6 months. What matters to me, is in the first 2-4 months, the amount of slickness, and gloss, that are retained from DAY one after the detail job.
 
The only problem I have with Z is the fact that it is so easy to apply and wipe off that I want to layer it every day. With each layer the gratification is addicting.

Yes, addiction is a problem with Zaino :D
 
after every wash and Z6, the car is basically prepped for more Z2. It is so tempting to spend another hour putting another coat on and buffing it off. That is why some people have 10-20-30 and 200 coats of Z on their cars!
 
in!Zaino is so easy that it makes using normal waxes a big pain.I could put two or three extra coats of Zaino on in the amount of time it takes me to get wax out of the cracks.Also as DETAILKING points out after Z6 your preped for another coat.Good luck:)
 
and the drying/curing times. Seems like a lot of products to use.

For the cars I have seen with Zaino, they all look amazing. I think Zaino users have an extra polish product/step though, like using 2 different polishes. Is this true? I know the Vette guys love Zaino!
 
ZV I sugest you go to the Zaino website and read up on the tips and products. The directions are clearly written and are informative as well.



The new ZFX makes the Z1 Polish lock step kinda obsolete.
 
ZFX may save Zaino, but without it is a royal PITA. You need multiple coats - but you can't drive yoiur car while the suff is sitting there drying. I don't have that much time nor am I willing to do that much work. T

As for ease of use, nothing, Zaino included, that I have tried, is easier than Pinnacle Souveran. wipes on very easily, buff it out with no waiting, buffs out easily too. Shine is easily as good as Zaino. But it is a carnauba - perhaps won't last very long. I still use Meguiar's Gold Class polymer blend - it DOES like to sit on the car for an hour before buffing, but one coat is enough, shine is as good as Zaino (see my test and see if you can tell the difference), and longevity is "reasonable." I apply it and buff it out with the orbital - pretty painless.

Can't speak for Klasse which also gets good reviews - I just haven't used it.
 
Maybe it's all the Z numbers with Zaino (Z1, Z2, Z3, Z5, Z6, ZXF), that is confusing. With Klasse, it's easy for me to remember, 2 products, AIO which is applied first, it can be applied 1 to 3 times, then SG which can be applied 1-5 times. When I read the Zaino application notes on the website, it's not as straightforward. Remember KISS, keep it simple stupid. Also, a rule in selling any product, if you give customers too many choices and options, many customers will walk away and choose the less complex, easier choice. That is why Klasse is so popular, anyone can follow the 2 step application. Maybe if Zaino gave them names, it would make more sense and easier to sort out which product to use and when to use it, instead of Z1, Z2, Z3, Z5, Z6 and ZXF.:eek:
 
Can't say I've used Klasse, Blackfire or Zaino, but I recently put a single coat of Meguiar's #20 Polymer Sealant on both of our vehicles, and I was incredibly impressed.... still am. :up After two weeks, both cars still look like they've been dipped in butter. I quick wash is all it takes for them to shine right up again.... wheels too. I would like to give them a second coat, but I haven't had time. It goes on like a regular wax.... let dry to a haze, and buff off. If you let the wax build up on the towels, it starts to leave residue on the finish, but that's the only downside I see.



I'll let everyone know about the longevity, but even after two weeks of 24/7 outside exposure, the Polysealant has already surpassed the Meguiar's Gold Class wax I used previously. I am going to have the film developed this week, so I'll post some photos of our Lancer as soon as I have them.



I'm using Meguiar's right now mainly because I can afford the $20 for a bottle, while BF, K and Z are still a bit too much cash in one chunk. My priorities right now are: durability, shine, cost, and ease of use.
 
Everything is relative and only as hard as you make it. I used to use Meguiars products (cleaner, glaze, then wax) and it would take me A LOT longer than Zaino. I for one have never had to wait more than 30 minutes before removing Zaino either, even when we had 50-55 degree weather two weekends ago. By the time I am done dressing my tires and fenderwells and cleaning my glass it is ready to buff off, which is SO effortless.



Zaino requires more diligence and attention than other products (since it requires a little more technique to get good results), but I wouldnt say it is hard at all. If anything, I find it MUCH easier to maintain my car with Zaino (another coat every few weeks to every few months after a routine wash) than with my traditional waxes.
 
For me the reason for using a polymer sealant is durability. I've used Meguiar's #20 and the Klasse products on my white truck. It stays outside all the time. It is a daily driver that often goes on construction sites. It also is a crew cab long bed so it has about an acre of sheet metal. No matter what I use, if I'm going to do the whole truck it is going to be a big job. After I finish the big job I want it to last. Now it's not durability at all costs but if the sealant can have a shine that's a degree or two less shiny but it is going to last twice as long I think that's a good trade off for the truck.

With the car or a motorcycle they are so easy to wash and wax that I enjoy doing it often. So for the black car and black bikes I'm going for ultimate appearance with durability relegated to a lower rung. For them my favorite new wax is Souveran. I just used some Souveran on my black '64 BMW R69S and it looks terrific.
 
but even that is hard to say..all 3...durability...shine and ease of use are so closely connected....i mean...if something lasts for a yr...but it takes you a whole day to get it on...is it still worth it???if something shines like there's no tomorrow...but only lasts for 2 wks...is it worth it....ya see what i mean...we all have different priorities and those pririties do change...depnding on our lives....got some kids...time is important....need something easy to use and that lasts....(or maybe you want more time to yourself...hehe:p )....an only detail on w/e's....then you need to take advantage of the little time you have and get something on there that will last....so the disagreements continue....





i have to say...havent tried the bigK or BF....but even if i got them for free...i would try them because i like to detail...not because imunhappy with the Z...i must have read all these threads above this one 3 times each....and i thought carguys test was awesome....it was objective and fair....but....i dont get the other guys' time and $$ issue....i just dont say your wrong...i say i dont get it...??:confused: ......confusing.....how....i really dont get it





you put some Z1 on(but not if you want to take out a loan from your bank and get the wow!$20 ZFX...thats good for about 20 applications of Z...thats a friggin $1 a coat extra whoopedeydoo!!)....then after the Z1 you immediately apply Z5/Z2....then ...and only then.....do you have to wait an additonal amount of time...say 1 hr total...to allow both products to dry at the same time.....then its Z5/Z2 whenever...and if ever you want...with about a 30 min drying time if its humid.....i did it with days of 100% humidity in NY....and it took about an hr.....where is everybody going....an hr....what always gets me is....very few K users do not cover with Blitz?souveran....because it looks awesome...as the pics can attest too...well ok....thats more $(60 dollars for S...damn!!)and more time.....so how do you save $ and time with Klasse....it doesnt make sense to me....you got hazing...but not if you use a ceratin buffing technique...ot wet the applicator....or whatever....so these drawbacks can be said about any product....but for me....the most important thing is...you very rarely....rarely...if ever...see a post saying that a Zaino guy...couldnt get the Z off...or he lost 30 lbs with elbow grease to get it all off......i like the Z...on easy...wait...off easy...looks great...and lasts!!....i am going to try the K next spring...because i value the opinions of the Autopians who happen to like it....as for BF...unless i get a freebie...thats out....man im tired....:eek:
 
...it's durability hands down. I am more concerned about durability than anything else because of the harsh winters, road salt, and the fact I work in an industrial setting.



So far, the Klasse has held up nicely and it was pretty easy for me to use. :D
 
Durability, shine, or ease-of-use?



Yes.



And pulleeaassee, carguy :rolleyes: We all like you and all. We know you don't care for Z, and that is based on your preferences and I totally respect that. But Zaino isn't nearly as big a PITA as you would have us believe.



I personally think it is much much easier than any carnuba I have ever used (not saying I've used even a small fraction of them but let's say 5 or 6). Haven't tried Pinnacle. No fair comparing to a one-step, which is the ultimate in easy but has its own disadvantages such as harshness and shorter life. In my experience Z goes on easy, comes off easy, and having to wait for a whole hour or so before removal isn't bad at all in practice. I usually start removing the first section in less than 30 minutes after I applied the last section. During this time I detail other parts of the vehicle. I think every single synthetic has some sort of a curing time. Even without Zfx I really don't care about doing more than one coat in a session anyway - this again referring to just me.



I'm pretty darn sure that it is no harder than Blackfire or Klasse AIO/SG. Have I tried them? No. Would I? Sure! Will I? Probably Blackfire next spring on something.



Rad21, as for all the Z's - well, that's why I try to refer to the non-finish stuff by the product name such as Leather In A Bottle instead of Z10 (or whatever...) All there really is to keep straight is Z1, Z2 and Z5. How hard is that? Cripes.



End of rant. Sorry. I'm not a Zainiac or Zaino Zealot or whatever, really. Sal only pays me in product, no cash involved;)



And I'm also sorry about posting this after reading some of the other later posts that more or less make the same point.
 
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