Where is PURE Carnauba wax made/manufactured?

Raymond

Raymond

New member
Pure carnauba wax is grown on trees in northern Brazil, so they say. Then it´s softened with chemicals. I´m curious to know where they actually make wax? Is it made in Brazil or in the States? Veterans consider Pinnacle Souveran to be the best pure show car wax but they (website does not mention anything about where they make it). I called Pinnacle once to ask, but they would not go into depth about the subject other than to say it´s made in two locations, in Tampa and South Florida.



How do we know if the top waxes (Souveran, Trade Secret, P21S) are not manufactured by the same company in Northern Brazil?



I want the best for my Corvette and knowing where my wax came from means alot to me.



Thanks-
 
Where the actual wax comes from is not really important, I don't think; it sounds like you want to know where the Souveran, Natty's, etc. is made. The way you are describing it is like saying that gasoline comes from the Middle East, etc. The raw material for gasoline may come from the Middle East, but the gasoline (for the US) is made in a refinery here.



So the raw material for carnauba wax may all come from a specific geographic location, however there is blending, formulating, etc., done at the "wax" manufacturer. A lot more is done than just "softening" it, there may be a variety of different solvents used, other waxes blended in, etc.



Sorry if I didn't answer your question.
 
I thought I had read once that there aren't an awful lot of blenders in the US and most, if not all of the waxes we are familar with come from them.
 
I remember seeing a show on this on Discovery Channel a while back and if memory serves, northern Brazil is the only place in the world where carnauba grows (something to do with the climate where the plant produces the wax as a natural defense mechanism. The plant grows elsewhere in the world but doesn't produce the wax. Even if you took a plant from Brazil and planted it somewhere else, it would stop producing wax).



They collect the wax from the leaves and ship it unrefined in huge blocks. The manufacturers then refine the impurities out of the wax and make it into products.
 
Raymond said:
Veterans consider Pinnacle Souveran to be the best pure show car wax... I want the best for my Corvette and knowing where my wax came from means alot to me.



Thanks-
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Hi Raymond, and welcome to Autopia!



I hate to say it, but the concept of "best pure showcar wax" really doesn't have any meaning. If all you want to do is show your car, there are better things to put on it than wax, after all. If I had a show car, all it would ever see is Meguiar's #7 Show Car Glaze. It wouldn't need wax; after all it would only go to shows.



But since we drive our cars, all our choices seem to be compromises between beauty and protection. Fortunately there seem to be more and more products that are extending both parameters at the same time, in waxes and sealants, and blends.



For my money, the differences in appearance between Souveran and the top sealants is becoming vanishingly small, especially in the last year or so... but the sealants are able to maintain slickness of appearance and the protective barrier. That characteristic can actually go farther in maintaining apperance by preventing chemical etching and requiring less maintenance and less frequent re-application (which can lead to more marring).



As far as where the stuff is made, I'm with the "It doesn't matter" guys. I know that doesn't help you, but I hope it redirects you to more meaningful lines of inquiry. What's your experience level? If you're new to the whole scene, download the Guide to Detailing. If you're familiar with the canon, maybe you can look for refinements to your techniques. Once you know how to produce the glassy wet look, final coat is purely preference.



Enjoy your time here!





Tom
 
Carnauba is purchased in brick form by the manufacturers. As already stated, the best carnauba comes from Brazil. Not sure, however, if it comes esclusively from Brazil. It is my understanding that the pure carnauba is graded while it is still in brick form. #1 yellow being one of the top grades. I am not sure if it is the best grade though. The carnauba can then be refined even further to remove impurities and make it an ivory color. I was told by a person who works for Pro Wax that a company in Germany refines yellow carnauba to ivory carnauba. There are a lot of factors that go into the formulation of carnauba paste wax. Most of them contain other ingredients, including other types of waxes and polymers. The waxes you mentioned are all very good waxes that could be used for show. I believe a quality carnauba paste wax gives a properly prepped finish that extra glow that could make the difference between a winner and a loser. There is also some great carnauba waxes that dont get mentioned much on this forum. One that comes to mind is One Grand's Blitz Wax. I would not get too concerned with how and where waxes are manufactured, but rather how they look and perform. Hope this helps.
 
I'll have to disagree with the popular misconceptions. I agree with the fact that preparation of the paint surface is critical. Despite this, I have seen significant distinctions between different qualities of wax. Some agree; others may strongly disagree. However, I've witnessed differing characteristics of wax on show quality cars as well as my own automobiles and other well rendered paint finishes. The absolute best finishes I've seen personally in a show or otherwise were obtained by using well graded wax products and near flawless paint surfaces.



Your best measure in finding an "optimal" ("Best" is subjective, because the best has to be compatible with its user, both in application and affordability) wax is to experiment by trying several brands in your own comparison test. Don't rely solely on opinion or published tests, as it may surprise you in finding out how a well touted product really isn't as good as people say. You could also be surpised in how well modestly priced products work. Results rely in the combination of excellent finish products and the application method IMO.



PS: I'll skip the carnauba grade argument. #1 yellow isn't made into ivory or #1 white as it is popularly termed. "White" carnauba has an ivory color, but it is manufactured from pale yellow young carnauba leaves. It isn't transformed into white from #1 yellow, and contrary to this, there are some waxes that contain white carnauba that will not appear white in its manufactured form.
 
Copied from Zymol.com:

Q: What is Carnauba?

A: Carnauba Wax is exuded by the leaves of the Brazilian “Tree of Life� (Copernica Cerifera) to conserve the moisture within the tree and leaves. This ‘Carnauba Palm’ grows in the northern and northeastern parts of Brazil along the river banks, valleys, and lagoons where the soil is dark and fertile. The tree needs very little water to grow, is very prolific and attains a height 40-50 feet after fifty years. The natives in the surrounding area use the various products of the tree for many necessities in their lives; hence the name “Tree of Life.�

Of interest is the fact that only in northern Brazil does the Carnauba Palm produce wax. The tree also grows in other parts of Brazil and adjacent countries in South America , Ceylon , and Equatorial Africa, but owing to the irregular rainy seasons of these places the tree fails to produce the wax needed for high gloss polishing. Leaves containing the wax are cut off the tree during the period from September to March. (This process is no way endangers the tree). The color and quality are governed by the age of the leaves and the care used in processing the wax. The leaves are soaked in kerosene and turpentine to soften the wax, resulting in a thick liquid that then is poured into molds and allowed to solidify. In addition to color, the wax is also graded according the area of origin – Parnahyba, Piaui, Ceara, and Bahai. Carnauba ‘Lumps’ or 'Bricks' are weighed and coded for sale to processors and refiners. Carnauba has an affinity to water, the ability to retain oil and has excellent gloss properties making it applicable in a vast variety of industries. Carnauba is widely used in cosmetics, particularly in stick applications. Carnauba is the world's hardest natural wax (super LDL) and has lustrous composition making it the leading choice for candy coatings, pharmaceutical coatings and polishes.
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Everything you never really wanted to know about Carnauba wax I guess. :grinno:



Also, I would like to add that I agree with those who are basically saying that shine is made up of three things:



1. quality of paint job

2. quality of prep work (use of pre-wax cleaner, etc.)

3. quality of wax/polymer



In order to get the best shine you need to have the best of all three of these things. Also, I agree that where the raw wax is turned into car wax is irrelevent, but I believe Zymol is made in Connecticut. I think you can go on a tour of their factory if you're in the area.
 
Did some further research. #1 yellow carnauba is the highest grade of carnauba in its natural form. Ivory carnauba is simply #1 yellow with the impurities/color removed. Like I stated, I was told by a representative from Pro Wax that companies exist, like the one in Germany, that further refine #1 yellow to produce ivory carnauba. Not trying to start an argument, but where did you get your info about 'white' carnauba being produced in its natural state?
 
The Guru Report did a small synopsis on it, but it did not go into full detail. The report simply states that the notion of "ivory" being made from #1 yellow is a misconception.



Zymol gives a full explanation on how its "White" carnauba is manufactured on their website. Some of the elite brands of wax (of which Zymol is included) make distinctions between #1 white and #1 yellow, with white being regarded as the highest grade available.
 
lbls1 said:
Some of the elite brands of wax (of which Zymol is included) make distinctions between #1 white and #1 yellow, with white being regarded as the highest grade available.
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Be careful about claims made by wax manufacturers. We like to trust what they say as being more than marketing, but how often have we been dissappointed?
 
Mosca said:
Hi Raymond, and welcome to Autopia!



I hate to say it, but the concept of "best pure showcar wax" really doesn't have any meaning. If all you want to do is show your car, there are better things to put on it than wax, after all. If I had a show car, all it would ever see is Meguiar's #7 Show Car Glaze. It wouldn't need wax; after all it would only go to shows.



But since we drive our cars, all our choices seem to be compromises between beauty and protection. Fortunately there seem to be more and more products that are extending both parameters at the same time, in waxes and sealants, and blends.



For my money, the differences in appearance between Souveran and the top sealants is becoming vanishingly small, especially in the last year or so... but the sealants are able to maintain slickness of appearance and the protective barrier. That characteristic can actually go farther in maintaining apperance by preventing chemical etching and requiring less maintenance and less frequent re-application (which can lead to more marring).



As far as where the stuff is made, I'm with the "It doesn't matter" guys. I know that doesn't help you, but I hope it redirects you to more meaningful lines of inquiry. What's your experience level? If you're new to the whole scene, download the Guide to Detailing. If you're familiar with the canon, maybe you can look for refinements to your techniques. Once you know how to produce the glassy wet look, final coat is purely preference.



Enjoy your time here!





Tom
Click to expand...



Tom,

I agree :bigups
 
Alfisti said:
Be careful about claims made by wax manufacturers. We like to trust what they say as being more than marketing, but how often have we been dissappointed?
Click to expand...

I hear you on that one. I am (unfortunately) a converted Zymol user. I would've loved to have said that their claim and all of their hype was overrated, along with their ridiculous prices. Fortunately (or unfortunately for my wallet), I was soundly corrected. I won't try to tell you how much more of a wax Zymol is without asking you to try it first. To me, their claim of being an excellent product was well supported.



Now....would I recommend Zymol? Yes, if you're willing to try it. Would I recommend it over another product? No. Because depending on your prep, paint, and wax, it is possible to get very good results without spending a lot of money. I use two waxes for my fleet of two (at the moment) cars; P21S and Zymol. Both waxes give me spectacular results, and both waxes allow me to compare different qualities that distinguish them, with each wax delivering the results that I expect out of each product. That is what (should) makes detailing fun; Achieving success through different products, experimenting, and improving on the results.
 
Please don't misunderstand me. I'm not suggesting that Zymol's claim of being a superior product is misleading or hype. In fact, the overwhelming number of Zymol users seem to agree with your assessment. I've never used it so it's not my place to offer any critical comments about a product I have no experience with.



Would I pay that much for a wax? No. But that's me and my financial position. Is it worth the money? Not my place to say. Only those who've bought it and used it can answer that...and most have said "yes". People criticize us for paying for Souveran and the like, when they're happy with TW Hard Shell wax, and we think they don't understand. We have different value systems, and I'd be hypocritical to object to the cost of Zymol products. If I don't think they offer good value-for-results I simply won't buy any.



My comments above related to the grade#1 yellow vs 'ivory' carnauba debate, and the claims made about that. I've read comments from one or two chemists in the car care industry who've stated that grade #1 yellow is the highest grade carnauba and anything else is marketing spin. The only ones that I've come across to claim 'ivory' carnauba as superior are the manufacturers/vendors of these products, and the distibutor/refiner. In other words, it's been suggested that grade#1 yellow carnauba that's been re-classified offers no cosmetic advantage, other than the ability to market it differently.



This has been discussed before, ad nauseum, with no apparent outcome. Thus my statement about being cautious about ingredient claims. What matters is how it looks, and if you're happy with it. :bigups
 
Keeping in mind that you shouldn't automatically take what a manufacturer says as gospel this is what Zymol says about wyite carnauba (from Zymol.com):



"White" Carnauba is made from the sap of very young palmetto plants and is highly transparent.
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So, I guess they're saying white carnauba is the veal of the wax world. :grinno:
 
I realize the dilemma. Unfortunately there hasn't been anyone or any authority that has yet to factually dispute the claim of white carnauba being a pure form, or dispel the claim of white carnauba from being used by different manufacturers. Zymol and other manufacturers have made the distinction between their "white" and "yellow" carnaubas for years, and continue to market their products, and with some of these manufacturers being held in very high esteem by their clientele. I believe Zymol's claim and explanation, and not necessarily the naysayers for two reasons: 1. Zymol guarantees and will back their products; 2. I have seen a clear distinction between their "white" carnauba product made from pale yellow virgin carnauba leaves as opposed to a premium quality #1 yellow product.



I am less concerned about opinions or debates without a factual clinical study or a rebuttal from a manufacturer on a stated claim. So the question on the existence of white carnauba may or may not ever be put to rest. Am I concerned? No. Will it cause me to discontinue the patronage of Zymol? Definitely not!



However, I still encourage experimenting with different waxes and car care products, as you can obtain new or different levels of paint renderings that can satisfy a quest for the optimal clean.
 
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