What's the deal with white paint peeling?

Desertnate

Active member
As the owner of a perl white Acura MDX I was aware of Honda/Acura having issues with white paint that drove extended warranties for their vehicles. Our car was build a year or two after the warranty window, and the paint looks good. However, I then see the following story that references the second today.


Hyundia White Paint Problems

White Paint Peeling


Has this always been a problem with white. I typically don't even pay attention to white cars as I don't like the color, but also don't remember seeing problems like this until the last decade. For those of you with more gray in your beard than I have, what say you? Problem? Internet echo chamber? Must be some problem if OEM's are issuing warranty extensions.
 
That makes no sense, really, since it seems to be peeling down to the metal (in the Hyundai link, anyway). Why would white peel more than another color? Unless the primer system needs to be different because white doesn't hide as well, maybe that's it? The e-coat is different?
 
That's what I found interesting. In the second link there are images of Toyota's and a host of fleet vehicles from Ford and maybe GM that are peeling down to the bare metal. It was a problem with the Acura/Honda's too. I've seen the TSB for Acura and the images Honda provided was a white MDX with paint that peeled down to the metal.
 
Well, the Google Generative AI seems to think that the e-coat is different for white paint, which would explain it...I kind of thought they were less batch-oriented on the car lines these days. I thought in the old days they would do all the cars that were the same color at once, so as not to have to flush out the guns as often, I would imagine having to do a different e-coat for white topcoat would screw up their whole process.

I mean changing out the e-coat tanks? That makes flushing the spray guns out look like child's play. Isn't there someone on AGO that works at a car plant?
 
Well, the Google Generative AI seems to think that the e-coat is different for white paint, which would explain it...I kind of thought they were less batch-oriented on the car lines these days. I thought in the old days they would do all the cars that were the same color at once, so as not to have to flush out the guns as often, I would imagine having to do a different e-coat for white topcoat would screw up their whole process.

I mean changing out the e-coat tanks? That makes flushing the spray guns out look like child's play. Isn't there someone on AGO that works at a car plant?
Different coat? The person saying that as fact has NEVER even been in a plants paint section !! Several reasons for the delamination issue, and as one who has been in the paint lines of numerous plants and their brands find such b/s "facts" laughable.
 
OK, I'll bite; What is "e-coat" and what has that got to do with white paint and its delamination and flaking?
Yes , it did not take the time to Google it, nor do I expect some cut-&-pasted links about it.
Just looking for the Cliff Notes short version explanation.
Side note:
Makes my "prediction" that one day (soon), ALL new vehicles will be painted white and then wrapped with buyer (or dealer)-chosen colored Protective Plastic Film (PPF) at the factory as part of the production process more plausible. While PPF application is somewhat labor intensive, modern AI-learning robots may make this process more feasible and cost-effective when current legislation of environmental VOC and CO2 emissions requirements need to be met.
(Truth be told, I personally prefer the current primer-base coat-clear cost (P-BC-CC) system, just like I prefer internal combustion engines (ICE) using fossil fuels over EVs. Yep, old-school, behind-the-times, living-in-the-past, holding-on-to-yesterday (great 1970's Ambrosia song!) Captain Obvious!)
 
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OK, I'll bite; What is "e-coat" and what has that got to do with white paint and its delamination and flaking?
Yes , it did not take the time to Google it, nor do I expect some cut-&-pasted links about it.
Just looking for the Cliff Notes short version explanation.
Side note:
Makes my "prediction" that one day (soon), ALL new vehicles will be painted white and then wrapped with buyer (or dealer)-chosen colored Protective Plastic Film (PPF) at the factory as part of the production process more plausible. While PPF application is somewhat labor intensive, modern AI-learning robots may make this process more feasible and cost-effective when current legislation of environmental VOC and CO2 emissions requirements need to be met.
(Truth be told, I personally prefer the current primer-base coat-clear cost (P-BC-CC) system, just like I prefer internal combustion engines (ICE) using fossil fuels over EVs. Yep, old-school, behind-the-times, living-in-the-past, holding-on-to-yesterday (great 1970's Ambrosia song!) Captain Obvious!)
E-coat. invented by PPG. patented name is Uni-prime, is an anticorrosive water based carrier coating applied by electrical charge while entire white body is dipped in a large tank of it. Requires a more conventional primer applied over it. Was adapted by the auto industry for rust protection during the 80's.
 
I know back in the late 90's a lot of white vehicles had issues with peeling paint. I suspect the ongoing paint issues have to do with VOC compliant ingredients that aren't as good as previously used products.
 
I think the VOC issues are pretty much fleshed out already. When I was searching on this one thing I found is that Ford was trying to cut down how many paint steps on the Transit vans since almost all of them are white, so, while perhaps unrelated to the topic of this thread, it may be that it's a result of the car companies trying to save money, etc.
 
I think the VOC issues are pretty much fleshed out already. When I was searching on this one thing I found is that Ford was trying to cut down how many paint steps on the Transit vans since almost all of them are white, so, while perhaps unrelated to the topic of this thread, it may be that it's a result of the car companies trying to save money, etc.
I think the cost savings idea is probably true, but why then are the problems only seen on white? I'd think the thinner paint applications for the sake of cost savings would cause premature failures or all paint colors.
 
I think the cost savings idea is probably true, but why then are the problems only seen on white? I'd think the thinner paint applications for the sake of cost savings would cause premature failures or all paint colors.
Ford is using a "two-wet monocoat" process on the white Transit vans, vs. a "3-wet" process. So they are only doing 2 steps, instead of three (I think there is no CC).

That may have nothing to do with this peeling problem, I was just speculating that perhaps there is some new process for white that PPG or someone came up with, that involves something different for that color than for others.
 
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