whats the cheapest way/mod to improve performace?
- Thread starter u571
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Jngrbrdman
New member
The least expensive would be good gasoline. 
I don't know that I would consider that a mod though. Probably an air intake would be next. Depending on what kind of car you have, that would probably be pretty cheap.
I don't know that I would consider that a mod though. Probably an air intake would be next. Depending on what kind of car you have, that would probably be pretty cheap.imported_memnuts
New member
Less restrictive air intake, Hi- flow exhaust system and computer (PCU) reprogramming or reprogramer. All less than $500 and can add 5-15 hp depending on car. Even with the addition of all three additional hp will not excess 15-20 max.
For improved handling the best bang-for-the-bucks change is upgrading to high performance tires. :wavey
For improved handling the best bang-for-the-bucks change is upgrading to high performance tires. :wavey
smfrycruzr
New member
advance your timing...it is free and worth at least 7hp.
Depending upon the car you drive, the biggest bang (and I mean bang) for your buck is a chip. A chip remaps your ECU, so that there is a significant HP increase, torque increase, and overall performance increase.
When I add a chip to my VW GTI 1.8T, the HP will go from 180bhp, to 220bhp. This is by simply adding a chip to my ECU. Not too shabby for just one mod. There are lots of other modifications that you can make, but the biggest bang comes from a chip. Most cars have chips available for the ECU's.
Best regards.
When I add a chip to my VW GTI 1.8T, the HP will go from 180bhp, to 220bhp. This is by simply adding a chip to my ECU. Not too shabby for just one mod. There are lots of other modifications that you can make, but the biggest bang comes from a chip. Most cars have chips available for the ECU's.
Best regards.
imported_memnuts
New member
MarylandVW said:
HeHeHe. Do you really believe that a chip will deliver 40 hp? No way will you see anywhere near that number with a stand alone chip replacement. If it sounds to good to be true....it isn't. Not a flame but a warning.
By the way I have some swamp land in western Florida available... prime investment for future development. Interested?
No flame warning needed. Check out the sites for yourself. Since the engine is a turbo, the HP increase is a bit more dramatic. Hey, I was a bit skeptical at frist, but after reading posts from other VDubbers, I am looking at getting a chip for my car.
http://www.upsolute.com/
http://www.giacusa.com/
http://www.awe-tuning.com/
Let me know what you think. I know that there is a required gas octane increase, but I am pretty sure that the HP gains are in the 30hp to 40hp range.
Thanks for keeping me in line. Hope that this sheds some light on your query.
http://www.upsolute.com/
http://www.giacusa.com/
http://www.awe-tuning.com/
Let me know what you think. I know that there is a required gas octane increase, but I am pretty sure that the HP gains are in the 30hp to 40hp range.
Thanks for keeping me in line. Hope that this sheds some light on your query.
Jngrbrdman
New member
If you want the most HP for your $$ then nitrous is the way to go. $300 or $400 bucks will get you more HP then you have right now probably. It is one mod that will wear out your engine waaaaaaaaaaaay fast but I don't think anyone can argue with me that it is the cheapest HP you can get. I don't know any other mod that can give you 100 HP for $300 bucks.
imported_StyleTEG
New member
Yeah, I beleave the chips change the boost which results in incredible gains.
For na engines, N2O is the best bang for the buck mod.
For na engines, N2O is the best bang for the buck mod.
Jngrbrdman
New member
...great minds think alike. 
imported_memnuts
New member
MarylandVW,
I read the articles and they seem very convincing but I still do not see where a 20-25% increase is coming from. The only loop hole I detected was the comparison of crank hp verses rwhp. If one advertises the crank peak hp gains with chip (220 hp) verses the rwhp stock (180 hp), the gains seem unbelievable or fantastic depending on one's view. But if crank hp before and after chip are compared the numbers would be more plausible with improvement of the ECU tables by the chip (200-205 verses 220). Also as stated previously if the waste-gate of the turbo is electronically controlled this would also augment gains. If this is the case ...be careful... increased boost means increase engine stress = BOOM.
This has become a very interesting thread. :wavey
I read the articles and they seem very convincing but I still do not see where a 20-25% increase is coming from. The only loop hole I detected was the comparison of crank hp verses rwhp. If one advertises the crank peak hp gains with chip (220 hp) verses the rwhp stock (180 hp), the gains seem unbelievable or fantastic depending on one's view. But if crank hp before and after chip are compared the numbers would be more plausible with improvement of the ECU tables by the chip (200-205 verses 220). Also as stated previously if the waste-gate of the turbo is electronically controlled this would also augment gains. If this is the case ...be careful... increased boost means increase engine stress = BOOM.
This has become a very interesting thread. :wavey
There is a VW performance shop here in the Baltimore area (off of Rt. 40) called New German Performance. I gave the shop owner a call, and talked with him regarding the chip (APR specifically). There are different programs that require different octane fuels, but the increases are amazing.
The Stage I chip requires a 93 octane or higher. That gives about a 25 to 30 horse power increase.
The Stage II chip reqires a 98 octane fuel. This gives (approximately) a jump from 180 (stock) to 240.
The Stage III chip requires a 101 octane fuel (not sure where to get that). That mod requires a few other changes (not sure exactly what they were: manifold, cams?). The net result is a bit over 300hp.
Not too shabby from a 1.8T engine. Here is the link if you want to check it out. I almost choked when he started telling me about the Stage III chip.
:xyxthumbs
http://www.ngpracing.com/
:xyxthumbs
Best regards.
The Stage I chip requires a 93 octane or higher. That gives about a 25 to 30 horse power increase.
The Stage II chip reqires a 98 octane fuel. This gives (approximately) a jump from 180 (stock) to 240.
The Stage III chip requires a 101 octane fuel (not sure where to get that). That mod requires a few other changes (not sure exactly what they were: manifold, cams?). The net result is a bit over 300hp.
Not too shabby from a 1.8T engine. Here is the link if you want to check it out. I almost choked when he started telling me about the Stage III chip.
:xyxthumbs
http://www.ngpracing.com/
:xyxthumbs
Best regards.
imported_memnuts
New member
Did you ask him what parameters of the ECU are being altered. There is only so much timing that can be dialed-in ( advance) without making the car unstartable. It really sound like the major change is in the turbo waste-gate programming ( requirement for higher octane fuel ). If this is the case the Stage 2 and 3 will require a up-graded fuel delivery system to ward off any fuel starvation during any full boost operations.
I wish they offered such radical ECU up-grades for small block V8's. I am jealous.
If this chip change is real and not detrimental to the engine, go for it.:xyxthumbs
I wish they offered such radical ECU up-grades for small block V8's. I am jealous.
If this chip change is real and not detrimental to the engine, go for it.:xyxthumbs
imported_Erik Mejia
New member
Maryland is right......
You can gain up to 100 hp with a computer chip and intake in a car......
We are talking about turbo cars, in which boost pressure is controlled by an electronic dump valve, which is controlled by the ECU.......by only chipping your car, you will indeed get those ponies! And, his car must have 180 Flywheel power.....all manufacturers claim HP that way.......You dont need to worry about blowing your engine, the VW iron block is one of the strongest ever, it is the same used for the 225hp audi TT, and most VwVortexer´s are running around 300 whp from the oem block, crank, pistons and rods with no problems whatsoever, and, what´s even best, is the fact that the APR chip has two curves, OEM one with stock boost timing and fuel, and "race" one, you switch curves by holding the cruise control button for 3 seconds, people are amazed by the difference, with only the flip of a button...
In order to go stage 3, you´ll surely need lots of items (front mount intercooler, TT turbo and downpipe, exhaust, blow off valve, maybe new fuel pump)....the best thing is that it is all bolt on, and reliable! (I really wish I could get a 337 GTI)
By no means you will get same gains in a non turbo car, chipping a naturally aspirated car will give you up to 10 hp, it depends on the engine displacement, some de-tuned german cars will generally give that.......you should combine ECU reprograming with a non restrictive air intake...
7hp by advancing timing?:scared No way, unless you´ve got a 80´s car, you will not see such gains, today´s cars use rotorless igntions in most cases, and those with distributors also have their timing adjusted by the ecu, you can alter the initial setting @ idle, but only 1 or 2 degrees, any more than that and the ecu automatically senses that (via crank position sensors) and the effect is even worse that standard timing, since it pull back timing even more.......tipical gains are between 1 to 3 hp at most.
NOS? Well, saying NOS costs 300 dollars, is like saying you only need wax to leave your car with show shine.....
500 bucks will get you the kit, but you need lots of accesories, such as fuel pump, gauges, fittings, switches (WOT activation switch, window module, etc), excluding the installation.....also, by no means you can spray a 100 shot on a OEM engine unless it is a V8....and really, I dont think it is something to look at if you arent deep into engines, there is lots of tuning involved, and lots of practice in order to keep your engine from going BOOOOM.....hit the rev limiter while spraying and BOOOM, spray in low revs and booom, miss a gear and BOOOOMMM
U571, what car do you drive??
You can gain up to 100 hp with a computer chip and intake in a car......
We are talking about turbo cars, in which boost pressure is controlled by an electronic dump valve, which is controlled by the ECU.......by only chipping your car, you will indeed get those ponies! And, his car must have 180 Flywheel power.....all manufacturers claim HP that way.......You dont need to worry about blowing your engine, the VW iron block is one of the strongest ever, it is the same used for the 225hp audi TT, and most VwVortexer´s are running around 300 whp from the oem block, crank, pistons and rods with no problems whatsoever, and, what´s even best, is the fact that the APR chip has two curves, OEM one with stock boost timing and fuel, and "race" one, you switch curves by holding the cruise control button for 3 seconds, people are amazed by the difference, with only the flip of a button...
In order to go stage 3, you´ll surely need lots of items (front mount intercooler, TT turbo and downpipe, exhaust, blow off valve, maybe new fuel pump)....the best thing is that it is all bolt on, and reliable! (I really wish I could get a 337 GTI)
By no means you will get same gains in a non turbo car, chipping a naturally aspirated car will give you up to 10 hp, it depends on the engine displacement, some de-tuned german cars will generally give that.......you should combine ECU reprograming with a non restrictive air intake...
7hp by advancing timing?:scared No way, unless you´ve got a 80´s car, you will not see such gains, today´s cars use rotorless igntions in most cases, and those with distributors also have their timing adjusted by the ecu, you can alter the initial setting @ idle, but only 1 or 2 degrees, any more than that and the ecu automatically senses that (via crank position sensors) and the effect is even worse that standard timing, since it pull back timing even more.......tipical gains are between 1 to 3 hp at most.
NOS? Well, saying NOS costs 300 dollars, is like saying you only need wax to leave your car with show shine.....
500 bucks will get you the kit, but you need lots of accesories, such as fuel pump, gauges, fittings, switches (WOT activation switch, window module, etc), excluding the installation.....also, by no means you can spray a 100 shot on a OEM engine unless it is a V8....and really, I dont think it is something to look at if you arent deep into engines, there is lots of tuning involved, and lots of practice in order to keep your engine from going BOOOOM.....hit the rev limiter while spraying and BOOOM, spray in low revs and booom, miss a gear and BOOOOMMM
U571, what car do you drive??
I'm with MarylandVW ...MarylandVW said:
One of things I like most about the VAG 1.8L 20 valves turbo engine is the tunability...
the same engine is sold with power rangind from 150HP to 220 HP, tuners will vary mainly the amount of boost to get the incredible power increases they advertise (ie:150 to 180 or 180 to 210 hp).
I'll say the difference between adding a chip or buying a car with the power from the factory is that - in my opinion - the power factory will be more reliable and more repeatable, while the increased power from just ading a chip will strain some other components that might not be up to handling all that power, I think the intercooler is one of the major things that will be stressed soon and limit power output soon if high power runs are performed.
some of the above problems are resolved by the tuners offering stage II and stage III kits ... which do become more involved than just a chip.
My car got the 180hp version fo the engine an it is more than capable to keep me from reaching the limits of the car, I'll need driving lessons , the right road (track!) to get even close to reaching the limits of the car.
So for those that might want to modify a small 4 cilynder engine the VAG 1.8T is a great candidate, I read on other forums Subaru's are also great tunable engines, and do come with better suspension in their original factory form.
This subject is discussed to dead on the vwvortex.com forums
Personally I will not modify my engine because I'm happy with how it is now ... but I had modified my cars in the past
I am a VW Vortex'er, and I have learned a great deal about modifying cars from this site. The best modifications (that I have read about) are chip mod's and exhaust mods. Between the two, you can add a good 15-20hp (this is on a non turbo engine).
I am fortunate that I have a turbo to work with. The list of possible modifications is quite long. Mugenman made the note about N2O. It is great for a big (and I mean big) wollup, but the strain on an engine is tremendous. I would never do that on a daily driver. I don't think that I would even consider doing it on a sport (weekend) car.
No one mod will give you super duper results (just like Mugenman says about waxing), but combinations of mods can make your daily driver a poor mans Ferrari (if you want to use that word ever so loosely).
Best regards.
I am fortunate that I have a turbo to work with. The list of possible modifications is quite long. Mugenman made the note about N2O. It is great for a big (and I mean big) wollup, but the strain on an engine is tremendous. I would never do that on a daily driver. I don't think that I would even consider doing it on a sport (weekend) car.
No one mod will give you super duper results (just like Mugenman says about waxing), but combinations of mods can make your daily driver a poor mans Ferrari (if you want to use that word ever so loosely).
Best regards.
Lowejackson
New member
U571, I guess it depends on what car you have, its condition and your goals. If your car is more than a few years old or has a high milage, replacing things like worn stuff like suspension parts will bring the feel of the car back to new. Very often people want to upgrade because parts are worn out and therefore detract from driving.
The most simple mods are to alter or change the way air gets into the engine and the way gasses leave it. But find out what the real restrictions in the system are. For example, most will replace the air filter first, but if the real restriction is the AFM then that should be changed if possible. As pointed out, almost ever car has a forum that can supply good quality information on getting the best from your car.
Speaking of which, the best mod to your car is some sort of advanced driver training. Money well spent and you will get more out of the car than any amount of extra HP
Steven
The most simple mods are to alter or change the way air gets into the engine and the way gasses leave it. But find out what the real restrictions in the system are. For example, most will replace the air filter first, but if the real restriction is the AFM then that should be changed if possible. As pointed out, almost ever car has a forum that can supply good quality information on getting the best from your car.
Speaking of which, the best mod to your car is some sort of advanced driver training. Money well spent and you will get more out of the car than any amount of extra HP
Steven
imported_StyleTEG
New member
Most peoples conceptions of N2O are often very misguided.
The concept of N2O is the same as a turbo or supercharger.
What do turbos and SC's do? Force more oxygen into the cylinders, so you can add more fuel, and there ya go more hoarsepower.
N2O is just oxygen enriched air. You are just forcing more air into the cylinders, the nitrogen actually acts as a cooling charge as well so it keeps tempatures down.
Because N2O is not always on like a turbo or SC, it is actually less strain on your engine.
Of cource if you use it wrong it can cause major problems, but that is no different for a turbo or SC.
imported_memnuts
New member
A well installed NO2 system on a engine prepared to handle this mod is extremely safe. Unfortunately, most people opt for the $600-$1000 systems on worn less sound engines.....BOOM!! The same holds true for after-market Turbos and Superchargers. 
imported_Erik Mejia
New member
But we all agree that it is a mod for the more mechanically inclined......