What Automakers paint is a pleasure to detail because of the high quality? Jap, Germ,

B

Bob Post

New member
American paint? All paint can be made to shine, but I'm partial to Japanese paint first, then German paint. My old VW has immaculate paint, very red and a deep, wet color. American paint is last to me, although the C4 Corvette had great paint to me, the C5's seem to have taken a step back as the colors of the C4's seem a lot better. Of course, Mercedes generally have great paint jobs to me, as well as Acura's. Blk on BMW's look great also.

What manufacturer make good paint to you judged by color, clarity, deepness or wetness, thickness and overall gloss and quality? :cool:
 
but has lots of spiderwebbing in the paint, and the clear coat is very soft. My camaro's had a nice hard clearcoat. My silver 97 Z-28 had very durable paint. It had virtually no stone chips in it at 50K miles. Some of the paint seemed uneven and orange peely though in some light conditions. My red 1996 Z-28 had tons of stone chips (softer paint), but shined like no tomorrow.



My BMW has been good so far, nice even paint and the clear is holding up nice so far. I say it's the winner so far, but it has only been 2 months.
 
My 1958 Jaguar. The Jag has the original lacquer on it from the factory. It's really amazing for being over 40 years old. Good enough to win concours still.

<img src=http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=781637&a=13475239&p=51601593>



Beyond that, I am most pleased with the paint on my last few Audi's. An absolute minimum of orange peel (much better than BMW or MB's I've seen) and very durable and glossy. The Pearl on my 1991 Coupe Quattro was stunning. (Much brighter than the yellowy pearls on most others) The silver on my S4 is the brightest silver I have seen (much brighter than the Porsche). It's blinding!

<img src=http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=781637&a=13475236&p=53885856>

<img src=http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=781637&a=13475236&p=51601524>
 
One of the drawbacks to being so anal about the cleanliness and shine of my BMW's is that it exposes all of the paint flaws. My red '99 323i not only has a significant amount of orange peel on the sides, after a good coat of Blitz, it also shows imperfections in the rear fender that almost look like door dings (but aren't).



Personally, I think the paint on the older cars was better quality and held up better. Too bad that there weren't as many good car care products back then.
 
When I got it, it was a mess, with 40K miles on it. It had single stage paint and I didn't know even half as much about detailing than what I know today. I used dupont #7 polish on it to clean and and polish and it worked wonderfully. Anyone ever use this? It's real watery and brown. I finished up with NU finish, and let me tell you on that paint, I think I had more compliments on shine than any other car I owned. I will try and dig out an old pic to scan.....
 
Don,



Your Right about the awesome paint, but I think the detailer has to be pretty awesome, also.



Brad,



You still set the standard the we all strive for. Enjoy!
 
Believe it or not, my 2001 Subaru Outback wagon in Wintergreen has the best paint of any car I've owned (and I've owned over 40 other cars). Very deep color, almost zero orange peel, and a tremendously smooth, deep feel when properly polished and waxed.



Go figure.
 
The application is everything. The paint on your vehicle is the same paint that Mazda, Ford, GM and DCX have been using for years, just the new 1K+ which is more etch resistant.



The smooth even apperance is due to the way the plant operators monitor the atomizing bells.



Plus maintaining the oven temperatures and the time in the ovens.







:cool:
 
DK



I used the Dupont #7, too. The great thing about the single stage paints was that you could get down to new paint and then, boom, there it was: A bright, new finish, just as if you had a new, factory paint job, but one that was color sanded, because that is what you did, in effect, by using the #7 on it. Now, clear coats have many benefits, but there were certain advantages of single stage paints, too, particularly before regulations altered paint formulations.
 
2001 Black C320 Benz paint has orange peel and is very thin. No, VERY

thin. I don't like this new eco/waer based paint from a durability and look perspective. Klasse + Blitz helps it look great. Chips and scrapes are impossible to make go away without professional help. My Volvos had excellent paint. My Older American cars had great enamel paints but my expectations then were lower for quality of shine. My 80 and 90's Japanese labeled cars had from great to terrible paint. My newer American cars had/have orange peel and are not very durable.
 
But still paint-related. I heard that VW uses 4 coats of paint, while Audi uses 6 coats. I wonder if this is the same with Honda/Acura, Toyota/Lexus, Nissan/Infiniti, etc?
 
Beau,all receive the following coating applications.

1.Ecoat

2.Surface primer (some are powdercoat, others liquid, some are anti-chip all over, some just have an anti-chip added to leading edges over the liquid surface primer

3.Basecoat (color, this is water borne, otherwords the solvent is water)

4.Clearcoat. This is a hydrocarbon/water emulsion of the carrier solvent.

All vehicles clear application is started the same way, first the bells apply a coat to all exterior surfaces (some lower line do not get cleared in the engine and trunk compartments), then a second application of clear is applied, on some vehicle manufacturered, only the top surfaces, on higher end models the entire vehicle gets two coats.



This film build of clear is 1.5 to 2 mil.



Now, it gets interesting, as some of the very high end get a third coat of clear, resulting in a 2.5 to 3 mil film build.



This does not add protection, as only the top .5 (1/2) mil of the clear actually becomes dense in the curing process. However, the additional film build does increase the "depth" apperance of the clear.



The real key is if the following is done correctly.



1. Application is even

2. Bake temperature is correct

3. Bake time in the oven is for correct time.



Failure to do correctly any of the above and the

end result is things like "orange peel", dull appearing surfaces, overly soft clear or to hard of clear, etch/mar resistance is diminished, clear may delaminate in a couple of years, become powdery, exhibit loss of gloss, etc, etc.



One other item, apply to much or excessive film build, mainly in the clearcoat subject and it will fail prematurely. More is not always better in the application of highsolid/low solvent clearcoats,



Hope this provides you with a picture of what the issues are, I am always amazed when I consider that around 35 million vehicles are built each year worldwide and there is not more problems than there are!



:eek:
 
Ron, It would seem to me that the majority of the population doesn't really care as much about the appeareance of their cars as we do....mabey the problems are there but people don't report them as much because they don't care!
 
You just said a mouthful!



35 million vehicles, 35 million owners in one year, what about all those still on the road that have been built in the past.



The dealership sales people give bad advice, the bodyshops are not up to date, plus their job is to sell repaints, the service manager has his agenda, most people who own vehicles have little or no knowledge of today's finishes, and after all it is much easier to watch a commercial and believe or read a magazine ad.



Then there are those who believe anything that is written and "I read it or so and so told me", "gee, his car looks nice so they must know what they are doing and using."



I am not allowed to function that way, nor is our company, we respond to what the vehicle manufacturers engineering groups, the paint supplier's engineers and chemist publish and share with us. No conjecture is allowed.



Yes, many of those on this site are very knowledgable about the care of their vehicle, and the best part, are open to learning the facts, those that are presented by the manufacturers.



After all, they built and sold the vehicles, must know something, just do a very poor job of getting the information out to their dealerships, their customers.



This is in the beginning stages of changing, was able to provide some changes that will be showing up in some manufacturers owner's manuals.



Course it is going to upset the automatic carwash industry, some uninformed detailers, some owners who have bought off on "old wives tales" of procedures and products.



But, hey, I am a big guy, just report the facts, not the bull.



:bounce
 
With the difference in applications in clear coats, when you say some high end cars get a 3rd application of clear, do you mean high end like Caddy's and Bimmers, or high end like Bentley's and Aston Martins?
 
5 series and 7 series get an extra pass, except the 5 series which are getting the experimental slurry powdercoat clear, they get two.



Caddy's, none of them, Jags-all get the extra pass, and so on and so forth.



Just doing an electronic mil gauge measurement doesn't really tell the story unless one knows which primer system is used. If anti-chip powder is applied to the entire vehicle the mil readings will give readings that are close to a vehicle with 3 passes of clear, but using standard surface primers.



In short, it is necessary to know the model and plant, the process that the particular plant's paint kitchen uses.



:cool:
 
Ron, I thought that slurry-coat experiment was a bust? They're still using it?
 
BMW is still using it on some 5Series, after all the is a lot of money in equipement invested.



The latest I am getting from DCX/MB is they are backing off of introducing it.



The new technology clear I referred earlier will be the direction they and GM are going. Not as expensive to change the plants over and less expensive for the material.



Better gloss without having to go to long lengths in the process as well. Will have great etch and mar resistance.



Should be on some 2003 models introduced in the middle of 2002.



:cool:
 
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