Wetsanding Rant!!!!

Barry Theal

Barry Theal

New member
Hello to all my fellow Autopians



I have recently been seeing alot of ?'s about wetsanding. I thought I would make this real simple for New Autopians and Detailers. Wetsanding is NOT something you can just read about and do. It takes time and experiance to learn. It seems like Everytime someone posts a thread with a fully sanded car! ( not calling out any names RASKY :heelclick ) It seems everyone wants to wetsand a car and the posts just keep coming. I know it looks so easy in the pictures, let me tell you something. Its easy with experiance. As a new person doing it. Its not easy. Lots of people can wetsand scratches, scuffs, dirt in paint. When you get into full panel sanding and complete vehicle sanding, Its not as easy. So please my fellow Autopians, If you have to ask Whats the difference between and sanding block and a soft sanding pad. Pay someone else to do the sanding. If you find yourself asking simple ?'s about sanding what are you gonna do when you actually have to compound all the sand marks. Its a very long a time consuming process. Please guys, if you have never sanded a car and you have no one to educate you about the process. Just don't sand it! Not trying to sound arrogant or rude, just trying to save a few cars from burn't edges, tracers and lots of wavy panels! Thanks for reading.
 
I agree with you Barry, but you'll never learn until you try. You gotta put some paper to paint. Let's put together a list of tips and tricks without giving away all of our secrets to help those who want to try wetsanding something to start with. Like Barry says though, it takes time and experience to learn. This being said, if you're getting nervous every time you polish a car, wetsanding should wait. If you're comfortable polishing, especially with wool, then it may be just the right time to step up your game. If you're a seasoned veteran, now is the time to post some advice and pictures. How's that sound Barry?





John
 
I was thinking the same thing! Even wet-sanding small scratches without experience is risky! The chances of cutting right through to the primer/body are massive and always looming.



Suggestion:

Go to the junkyard and get an old hood from a truck, that still has a surviving clear coat- the biggest you can find(pickup size). Chances are that it’ll be pretty damn beat up and in need of some love. Wet-sand it, purposely wet-sand down to bare metal starting with 1500grit, working your way up to the 3000/3500 grit. Then wet-sand the whole hood, starting at 1500 and working your way up to 3000/3500. Polish it all out. Repeat until you feel comfortable and understand the different quirks of wet-sanding.
 
OK I'll start.....





1. When wetsanding an entire vehicle, stay off, or very very lightly sand any creases in the bodywork. No 1000 grit, but lightly touching with 2000 grit is ok.

2. Don't sand all the way to edge of body panel, I usually leave 1/4 or so. Edges and creases will have the thinnest paint, as paint self levels and flows away from highest peaks in bodywork.

3. If you can't get your buffer into an area to polish, don't sand it. Example: Door pucks.

4. Sand in a straight uniform pattern, this will prevent a wavy looking paint when using a block.

5. If you're using a D.A. you can either dry sand, or damp sand, either way works, but make sure to use a intermediate pad when sanding on any body work that is not completely flat. If bodywork is completely flat, example: hood, trunk, then don't use intermediate pad.

6. A block will always sand flatter than a D.A.

7. If you sand a car starting with an an aggressive sanding paper and work your way up, it will be "flatter" than if you sanded the whole thing with a less aggressive sand paper.

8. Soak sandpaper for 30 min. before sanding.



Here are a few to start.





John
 
Barry Theal said:
Sounds Perfect Jon. You hit the nail on the head. How did I know you would reply to this thread? lol
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Lucky guess Barry. Some more good info from another thread.



fergnation said:
If youa re going to wetsand make sure you have some good paper. I wouldn't suggest using anything stronger than 2000 grit. Megs makes excellent "Unigrit" paper.



Make sure you clay the paint first so nothing can get stuck in the paper.



Get a good backing pad for the paper so it is nice and even on flat surfaces.



Have a bucket with soap and water so you can soak the paper for atleast thirty minutes before using.



have a bottle with a heavy soap and water mixure to keep the surface very slick.



Your sanding strokes should be in one direction keeping away from any edges and peaks.



check your work often by wiping the surface dry, you will be able to see how far you have gone down by looking at the scratches and swirls. For a first timer I wouldn't go any deeper than leaving a few of the deeper scratches. You can always step it down with a compound.



Take your time and concentrate on the flat large surfaces.



After 2000 and the correction you need, you can go over it again with 2500 and then even 3000. This will save you time when it comes to compounding the sanding marks outs.



I wetsand all the time. On cars with heavy scratches and rids I would rather sand then go over it three or four times with a compound. The 2000, 2500, and 3000 grit papers can less agressive than some of the compound on the market as long as you are not going back and forth with a heavy motion and keeping the paint lubed well with the soap and water mixture.



A lot of the advice on here is good advice. they just don't want to see you screw up your paint. But until you just go for it you will never have done it or learned how to do it. If you ahve any questions you can PM me and I will be happy to help. It is not nearly as scary as it seems as long as you are using non-aggresive paper and taking your time, all the while checking your work.



Now if you break out the 1000 grit paper and freak out on your paint like your sanding the picknic table you will have trouble. Just be carefull
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JohnKleven said:
OK I'll start.....





1. When wetsanding an entire vehicle, stay off, or very very lightly sand any creases in the bodywork. No 1000 grit, but lightly touching with 2000 grit is ok.

2. Don't sand all the way to edge of body panel, I usually leave 1/4 or so. Edges and creases will have the thinnest paint, as paint self levels and flows away from highest peaks in bodywork.

3. If you can't get your buffer into an area to polish, don't sand it. Example: Door pucks.

4. Sand in a straight uniform pattern, this will prevent a wavy looking paint when using a block.

5. If you're using a D.A. you can either dry sand, or damp sand, either way works, but make sure to use a intermediate pad when sanding on any body work that is not completely flat. If bodywork is completely flat, example: hood, trunk, then don't use intermediate pad.

6. A block will always sand flatter than a D.A.

7. If you sand a car starting with an an aggressive sanding paper and work your way up, it will be "flatter" than if you sanded the whole thing with a less aggressive sand paper.

8. Soak sandpaper for 30 min. before sanding.



Here are a few to start.





John
Click to expand...



:har: Yea what this dork said! LOL just kidding Jon thats some excellant advice. I need to get to bed Ill Do a nice little list for all tomarrow.
 
I noticed the same trend as well Barry, and not replying for the very reason.



That reminds me that I sanded a 67 Mustang (with Howareb) and never got payed for it.:sosad:sosad:sosad:sosad
 
tdekany said:
I noticed the same trend as well Barry, and not replying for the very reason.



That reminds me that I sanded a 67 Mustang (with Howareb) and never got payed for it.:sosad:sosad:sosad:sosad
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He must be friends with that DJ character! :LOLOL:lol
 
tdekany said:
I noticed the same trend as well Barry, and not replying for the very reason.



That reminds me that I sanded a 67 Mustang (with Howareb) and never got payed for it.:sosad:sosad:sosad:sosad
Click to expand...



The greenish color one from that day I was over? What happened?
 
Barry,



With all due respect, I have seen some of your work on here and I know you are an outstanding detailer. I disagree with your statement... and i quote,.... "I know it looks so easy in the pictures, let me tell you something. Its easy with experiance."

Well how exactly do you gain experience if you don't practice? I can understand practicing on an old hood or something prior to tackling a car, but at some point you are going to have to pull the trigger and actually try this on a legitimate car.



I asked this same question 3 years ago. Three years ago I received the answer you just gave. I do not have a professional detailing business with overhead and advertising and a client base (although lately you would think I did), I consider myself an amateur detailer and try and remain humble on the forum as I realize guys like you have years of day in day out experience on me. Anyway, after being told all the sob stories of wet-sanding I decided to dig into the paint anyway and guess what? I just finished a car yesterday (many cars later, many years later) in which the only way out of the mess on the hood was wetsanding... and the results might i add were outstanding.



I think a lot of you guys,... just an observation,... appreciate our sport but it seems like many of the pro's really don't want to see the little guys progress too far...



Sorry about the rant and I apologize if it appears as though I am attacking you, I AM NOT. I am just getting tired people telling people not to do something rather than giving them their options if they do it, and there do's and don't.



Meanwhile the posts by John are very accurate and would be very helpful to a beginner. Thanks for posting.



I have a degree in Automotive Technology but I've been out of school a number of years and I am rusty. Last year I listened an engine builder give me a lecture on how he is the only one in the United States that could build an engine... with all of his top secret engine research and info.. and so on, and so on and so on. After he slapped me with the price I went home, built the engine myself in my garage, and then drove the car over to his shop and left two nice black skid marks in his parking lot. He can look at those for the next year and think of me.



Share the wealth guys...



P.S. Wet sanding for correction purposes has no place IMO unless you have attempted compounding and polishing first (of course extreme cases of paint leveling and such are not included in that statement) When I need to do it I soak the paper in soapy water for at min a half hour, I use a sanding block... and I generally don't go less than 2000 grit with light pressure. As long as you stay away from the edges and don't have at it like your spanking the monkey you will be O.K.... at least its worked for me.

DG
 
Being a newby here and with detailing in general compared to those of you that do this for a living , I have the utmost respect for what you do and for taking the time to help others. One common comment I frequently see is about going to a salvage yard to obtain pratice panels. I have found , at least in my area , that body shops are a great place to find panels that aren't repairable that they are more than willing to give-away which saves a little cash that can be spent on more product. A win/win deal for both parties.

Another item that I try to keep in mind is to use a quality sand paper such as trizac for uniformity in the grit to help reduce tracers.Stay away from the cheaper generic stuff.

I hope I haven't stepped on any toes with this post . Just a couple of items that came to mind from this old guy. Thanks
 
If hand sanding...



Pre-Soak you paper for at least 10 minutes prior to sanding. Adding a drop of car soap or dishwashing liquid will help break the surface tension of the water, making it 'wetter'. Meguiar's discontinued #00 Hi-Tech Body Wash was my favorite soap for wetsanding because it does not create suds.



Sand in alternate directions with each grit. For example sand with 2000 grit up and down then sand with 3000 grit left and right. This allows you to gauge if you have removed all of the previous grit sanding scratches.



x9.jpg




Always use a sanding block, you hand is not flat and will create uneven pressure on the surface which may create a slightly uneven surface. When using a sanding block, hold it at a slight angle to direct you are polishing. If you hold it at a right angle the edges of the block may create deeper marks known as tracers.



x6.jpg




Don't lightly skim the paper over the surface in an attempt to be 'gentle'. This unevenly engages the abrasives against the surface creating an uneven scratch pattern. Don't press down like you are scrubbing like a super hero. Use firm, even, pressure to fully engage the abrasives as easily as necessary against the paint.



Don't proceed to the next grit until you have removed all of the previous grits damage. The step you are on is the most important step.



Work small sections at a time and constantly gauge your progress. You can use the side of most sanding block as a squeege to remove standing water quickly.



x7.jpg




It is nearly impossible (if not completely) to create 100% flat paint on OEM paints: The paint is fairly hard and thin. If your goal is completely level the paint (as flat as possible) start with an aggressive grit and knock it down. Don't try to 'finesse' it flat;



The flatter the paint becomes, the more the sand paper is going to contour into the peaks and valleys of the texture you are trying to remove (you begin to sand the lows and highs of the paint, reducing the total thickness, but not making it level). This is why you can sand paint until it looks uniformly dull, but when you polish it out the orange peel 'comes back'. Knock the orange peel down on the first step.



Don't get discouraged if you don't remove all of the sanding marks in one pass with your rotary, even with 3000 or 4000 grit as your final sanding step. Compounds may be advertised to remove 1500-2000 grit scratches, but these are rated for fresh paints. Cured paints are much harder. It can sometimes take two-three passes with an aggressive compound and pad to fully pull out 100% of the marks, even if the sanding was spot on.





 
Good tips everyone. I tried wetsanding my hood several years ago and I didn't presoak the paper long enough and I guess I didn't use enough pressure. Needless to say I still have some tracers I haven't been able to remove even with a wool pad, rotary and 3m compound.



Advice for the weekend warrior- think long and hard before you pick up the sandpaper and go to work on your car or someone elses.
 
Remember use ton's of water!!!!. I know it will be messy but, but left over deep scratches as mentioned in the previous post^ the water will help keep the possibility those deep scratches from happening.



Another thing I have done in the past when hand sanding is utilize a sponge cut to size as needed, as those harder foam sanding blocks or rubber ones can cause the paper to dig in when not needed and the sponge is more forgiving and affords more control imo.
 
A lot of good advice here. I just want to say something. When I make up my mind to do something, I am going to do it. If I don't know how to do it then I will search out certain forum's for advice. The last thing I want to hear is "NO DON"T DO IT"



I wanted to change out the spring on my garage door. everyone told me not to do it myself. So I called a company to do it. IT cost me $315 after I got sold on everything under the sun. After watching the guy do it, I was pissed. I could have bought spring for 35 bucks and done it myself.



My Point is that if it is not rocket science, computer programing or breast feeding, SCREW IT I am doing it myself.



People come on here for advice and "don't do it" isnt advice.



There are a lot of people on here with an overinflated sense of self-worth (no one so far on this thread). Either give advice on the procedure (tips, do and don'ts) or move one. No one tells me I can't.



Man, I woke up grumpy today!!!!!!!!
 
Auto Concierge said:
Remember use ton's of water!!!!. I know it will be messy but, but left over deep scratches as mentioned in the previous post^ the water will help keep the possibility those deep scratches from happening.



Another thing I have done in the past when hand sanding is utilize a sponge cut to size as needed, as those harder foam sanding blocks or rubber ones can cause the paper to dig in when not needed and the sponge is more forgiving and affords more control imo.
Click to expand...



I really didn't like the Megs sanding block-it feels too stiff.
 
A lot of good advice here. I just want to say something. When I make up my mind to do something, I am going to do it. If I don't know how to do it then I will search out certain forum's for advice. The last thing I want to hear is "NO DON"T DO IT"(end quote)



That attitude is the problem here. There was a time when people here would claim that wetsanding was harmless and go and grab the paper and get to work and the PC would fix everything. The problem is that wetsanding requires some skill and knowledge. And when some hot shot, know it all detailer jacks up someone elses Vette or Lambo it's not gonna end well.
 
I started sanding cars for a body shop when I was 16, I gotta say - it ain't rocket science and Todd's post is right on good advice. I've had to wet sand a few cars, not the whole car, but places where bird poop etched the paint. If you want to try it - go for it, but practice on a beater first!
 
Barry Theal (and others)- Glad you posted this. Hope people take you seriously.





fergnation said:
..People come on here for advice and "don't do it" isnt advice...
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At the risk of sounding :argue I don't agree with that. If I suggest that somebody not do something, it's because I genuinely believe that's the best course of action.



If I were asking how do do something ill-advised, I'd want some one who knows better to dissuade me from doing it, even if that's not what I'd like to hear.



And I truly believe that most people, working on most vehicles, shouldn't wetsand 'em, so I advise against doing it.



I won't be at all surprised if five or ten years from now a whole lotta vehicles need paintwork from all the aggressive stuff people are doing to them.
 
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