Wax over Sealant

sgo

sgo

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Contrary to opinions expressed here, is an excerpt from Griots Garage Detailing Handbook that begs the question.... What is the REAL answer?



Beginning of excerpt *************

In 2002, BMW of North America advised it's dealers and customers

"against the use of any and all paint sealants saying many of those

available may be detrimental

to the OEM finish in the future.

Sealants may not allow the finish

to absorb the oxygen, or

breathe. Breathing is necessary

to completely and thoroughly

cure. Actually, there is no benefit

to applying a sealant

to today's OEM high solids

basecoat and clear coat finishes.

They do not enhance the

clear coat shine and, in some

manufacturer's UV tests, have

proven to diminish the factory achieved gloss level." Exactly what

we've preached for years.

End of excerpt ****************
 
Keep in mind that Griot's wants to sell you something. I Googled for any reference to BMW recommending against sealants, and found nothing. Well, nothing except Griot's handbook, that is.



OEM paint is completely cured by the time it leaves the factory. The whole "breathing" and "feeding" paint is just marketing FUD designed to get you to buy a particular product, IMO. If you like how a sealant looks, and it meets your durability and ease-of-use requirements, then use it. It won't hurt the finish. If you prefer how carnauba looks, and don't mind the (generally) shorter durability, then indulge in waxy-goodness.



Experiment, and decide for yourself, I say. Griot's claims that sealants "do not enhance the clear coat shine" . . . I call shennanigans on that just from my own experience. :down



Tort
 
TortoiseAWD said:
Keep in mind that Griot's wants to sell you something. I Googled for any reference to BMW recommending against sealants, and found nothing. Well, nothing except Griot's handbook, that is.



OEM paint is completely cured by the time it leaves the factory. The whole "breathing" and "feeding" paint is just marketing FUD designed to get you to buy a particular product, IMO. If you like how a sealant looks, and it meets your durability and ease-of-use requirements, then use it. It won't hurt the finish. If you prefer how carnauba looks, and don't mind the (generally) shorter durability, then indulge in waxy-goodness.



Experiment, and decide for yourself, I say. Griot's claims that sealants "do not enhance the clear coat shine" . . . I call shennanigans on that just from my own experience. :down



Tort
Click to expand...

OK. What about this statement made in the same handbook?

********

Don't Mix Your Wax

Carnauba and synthetic waxes

don't mix well. If you've used a

sealant wax, or a lower quality

grade wax, strip it off using our

Paint Prep before using our carnauba

wax. Otherwise the wax

won't adhere well or you'll notice

hazing and smearing.

************

I went over my NXT with Meg #26 and noticed some of that hazing. It looks gorgeous otherwise.
 
SteveOst said:
OK. What about this statement made in the same handbook?

********

Don't Mix Your Wax

Carnauba and synthetic waxes

don't mix well. If you've used a

sealant wax, or a lower quality

grade wax, strip it off using our

Paint Prep before using our carnauba

wax. Otherwise the wax

won't adhere well or you'll notice

hazing and smearing.

************

I went over my NXT with Meg #26 and noticed some of that hazing. It looks gorgeous otherwise.
Click to expand...



I've read the same negative results of using carnuba wax over Zaino at roadfly.org. So there is some truth to the statement...:nono

Of course there's been positive results I've read too....:nixweiss
 
This is like the 'if a tree falls in a woods' question.

I think it is up to......YOU! Some days I LOVE topping off Platinum with carnauba, other days I think the sealant looks fine on its own!
 
Most products work fine together. To say that all carnaubas and synthetics don't work together is absolutely not true. A better thing to say would be, "In the wax and polish product arena only a few products won't work together well."
 
Dennis H. said:
Most products work fine together. To say that all carnaubas and synthetics don't work together is absolutely not true. A better thing to say would be, "In the wax and polish product arena only a few products won't work together well."
Click to expand...



This makes sense, but which ones?



I have the Klasse SG that I plan to put on my black car shortly. Is there a wax that would compliment that or should I just stick to the SG?
 
SteveOst said:
This makes sense, but which ones?



I have the Klasse SG that I plan to put on my black car shortly. Is there a wax that would compliment that or should I just stick to the SG?
Click to expand...



When I first put on SG I was impressed with it's reflectiveness but not nearly as impressed with the depth, wetness and clarity P21S gave me on top of the SG. No hazing or smearing problems with that combo. As long as it's prepped right you won't be disappointed. Nothing beats a carnauba look IMO.
 
I'm a fan of sticking to one manufacturers system. Most of the time a manufacturer will design their products to work together better than mixing and matching competing products.



From my experience the products with amino functional silicones seem to have the most bonding problems. Amino's are very tenacious and want to stick to anything they come in contact with. But every year new amino's come out and they are getting better.



I may catch some grief from this next one but here it goes anyway:



Just last week I used Zaino both over and under #26. Today I used Menzerna IP, FP2, FG and FMJ then put Mothers Natural Formula over it and #26 over it on one side of the hood. On the other side I put the carnauba waxes underneath the FMJ. I didn't overlap the carnauba's. So far I haven't seen any hazing or bonding problems. Of course the look is very different in each area but I don't think it is a bonding issue.



I'm sure people will disagree with my opinion so I think I'm gonna duck now.
 
I usually apply the Klasse twins as a base. On my sapphire blue metallic, no topping needed. On black Lincoln LS, I like Souveran over the twins. On silver, S100 pairs really well with AIO. It's pretty much personal taste that dictates which subtle differences you'd like to see in a car but for a lot of us, these subtle differences are very evident.
 
A sealant glaze will enhance the shine. I have found, however, that you can also skip this step and put on a pure wax, and have good results as well.



It is still my opinion that you should go the full measure to insure that you are getting the best shine and protection.
 
Dennis H. said:
I may catch some grief from this next one but here it goes anyway:



Just last week I used Zaino both over and under #26. Today I used Menzerna IP, FP2, FG and FMJ then put Mothers Natural Formula over it and #26 over it on one side of the hood. On the other side I put the carnauba waxes underneath the FMJ. I didn't overlap the carnauba's. So far I haven't seen any hazing or bonding problems. Of course the look is very different in each area but I don't think it is a bonding issue.



I'm sure people will disagree with my opinion so I think I'm gonna duck now.
Click to expand...



Hi Dennis,

No need to duck. There are few absolutes in this world except death and taxes. ;)

Incompatibility and bonding issues are rarely noted immediately after application. Somethings it takes a good exposure to environmental assault (i.e. hot direct sunlight, rain, etc) to demostrate there was a problem with the deviant procedure.

Check your work down the road.

Most manufactures try to cut down on usage restrictions for their products. This leads to product friendliness. The ones they state usually are real and do effect the "as advertised" performance of their product. :wavey
 
Yosemite Dan said:
When I first put on SG I was impressed with it's reflectiveness but not nearly as impressed with the depth, wetness and clarity P21S gave me on top of the SG. No hazing or smearing problems with that combo. As long as it's prepped right you won't be disappointed. Nothing beats a carnauba look IMO.
Click to expand...





AHHHH!! Thank you thats exactly what I wanted to hear :xyxthumbs That stuff too expensive to just sit around on a shelf:rolleyes:
 
Now if I can keep the damn chemist away from my hood I will be able to see how time treats the area. I've tried to keep him away before but the post-it notes keep flying off.
 
Yosemite Dan said:
When I first put on SG I was impressed with it's reflectiveness but not nearly as impressed with the depth, wetness and clarity P21S gave me on top of the SG. No hazing or smearing problems with that combo. As long as it's prepped right you won't be disappointed. Nothing beats a carnauba look IMO.
Click to expand...



That's good news. It's just what I was thinking of for my wife's black Monte Carlo.



I noticed a similar situation with her car using #26 over NXT. See my pics in my other thread. It really made a difference, but I want to try the new products I bought for longer durability.
 
I agree also with Yosemete. Especially a very high quality carnauba. The difference may be splitting hairs to some, but to the very anal in terms of paint finish resolution, the difference between the two medium paint finishers is distinct (and can be viewed positively or negatively depending on the desired result).
 
Ok my stuff came today :D and I did the P21 over the SG .By all means this is the way to go.I got on 2 coats of SG and 2 of p21 .

I think youll just have to see it for yourself to believe just how much the p21 sharpened things up :xyxthumbs

Do It you will not be disapointed .The price of p21 is worth it . :bounce
 
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