Very frustrating. Need help!

V

VW 91

New member
The last few cars that I've corrected I've been noticing a strange marring/haze that almost looks like holograms in direct sunlight. I recently did a 2-step on black Pontiac G8 GT (soft clear) and found this when i pulled it outside in the sun. I used a PC the entire time so I know they aren't holograms and inside under halogens and LED lighting the paint looked perfect. Also, I have correcting cars for about 2 years now, so I know its not technique.



I typically use M205 or PO85RD as finishing polishes and I know they both have heavy polishing oils. The strange thing is tho, even after using IPA, CarPro Erasor, and Griots pre-wax cleanser, the marks are still there. On one car I used XMT360 on it, and it went away, but I think it may have filled it in. My question is, are they any other reasons as to why these strange marks are on some cars? I thought that maybe I was inducing marring by wiping off polish immediately after buffing because the clear was hotter and easier to marr, but I dont know for sure.



If anyone has any input it'd be greatly appreciated.
 
Got any pics of what you're describing?



It's not unheard of to get DA hazing with certain polishes on certain finishes, but usually not with 85RD IME.... what pad are you using to finish down with? Speed/pressure?
 
C. Charles Hahn said:
Got any pics of what you're describing?



It's not unheard of to get DA hazing with certain polishes on certain finishes, but usually not with 85RD IME.... what pad are you using to finish down with? Speed/pressure?
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Not at the moment, if i see it again I'll try, its hard to tho.



For the most part I use a gray LC CCS pad with 205 and 85RD to finish down. I always run it at speed 6, even for finishing, and i use little pressure and then the last couple passes no pressure at all. I first noticed this on a 1987 Saleen Mustang that was a respray that had very soft clear, and again on the G8 GT, soft clear again. I did a TB SS and finished with 85RD and did not get the hazing. I did a red GTO which are known to have soft clear and finished with 205/orange and experienced no micro-marring or hazing whatsoever. Thats why this is so weird to me.
 
Were these details back to back with the same gray pad being used? Also, you realize the gray L CCS has no cut to it. You should be finishing with LC CCS white. Could it have been mixed in with your regular wash detergent? Do you use air or a brush to clean the pad while polishing? Are you sure youre polishing long enough with the PO85RD until it breaks down? I usually jewel the paint at speed 4-5 with the DA especially the pcxp. Even medium pressure, and I usually reduce arm speed.
 
Here's a pic of what I'm seeing. This was on the JB BMW paint I was talking about in the chat room. This is probably normal cause its so finicky, but what confuses me is that I saw this type of marring on a VW passat i did, and they have super hard clears. I used HD UNO/green on it. I will try finishing with white/85RD and slowing the speed down and my arm movements and see if that helps at all.



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Those look more like towel marring scratches than buffing scratches. Use lighter pressure when you wipe, and maybe softer MF towels. I've been there too.... pretty frustrating.
 
C. Charles Hahn said:
Those look more like towel marring scratches than buffing scratches..
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Right, that's how it looks to me too. Too "straight-line" to have been caused by a polisher. Besides using soft-enough towels and watching out for contamination (even just dust floating around in the air can do it), consider using some "clean" type of QD such as M34 when buffing off polish residue.



Oh, and don't underestimate how tenacious the oils from M205 can be; I've had them resist numerous (and I don't mean just three or four) wipedowns with IPA. It's one of the reasons I'm kinda getting over my initial enthusiasm for M205.
 
When you first said halogramming -I had a flash back to when I used Megs liquid wax to top M21 (yeah- back in the day huh!) I had the same effect, looked like buffer trails and it was just a layer of wax not playing with the sealer AND my own ham fisted application. I'd suggest play with the pads as the varible, use something like UNO then Poxy since they are made to work together.
 
Well I used a Green Buff and Shine with 85RD on speed 5 for the first 6 passes then speed 4 for the last two with slower arm movements and the paint finished out haze free. But, I still got towel marring after letting the polish sit for a minute before removal and removing it by spraying ONR on the surface. I dont feel comfortable applying OC to it, so I think Im just going to apply and AIO to it. I will be maintaining it and its a garage queen so I'll just deal with it lol



I still am baffled as to why I got this same type of towel marring on the VW passat I mentioned as it has rock hard clear.
 
I use Poorboys DMTs, Mega Plush, Microfibertech green 300gsm, and yellow 360gsm, Eshines blue cheaper towel, and the rolled edge towels from AG. The TB SS I did I used the same towels then as I do now, and that paint turned out flawless with no towel marring.
 
You could try finishing with a Ez creme glaze, or Black light, and going right to a sealant no need for wiping to induce MF marring on the paint.
 
I have some XMT 360 lying around that I have no use for, I was thinking of using that once a month or every two months only because if you work it long enough you dont need to wipe it off as it leaves no residue.
 
VW 91 said:
I use Poorboys DMTs, Mega Plush, Microfibertech green 300gsm, and yellow 360gsm, Eshines blue cheaper towel, and the rolled edge towels from AG. The TB SS I did I used the same towels then as I do now, and that paint turned out flawless with no towel marring.
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Well it certainly doesn't sound like you're using crap towels.







Regarding OC, what you might do is try seeing if Optimum Hyper Polish or Optimum Finish Polish will finish down haze-free (don't wipe the residue off, foam the car with OPC and pressure rinse to remove the oils), blow the car dry, and apply the OC with an airbrush or HVLP mini-gun.



I haven't played with that method myself but others have had great success spraying OC and Dr. G has quasi-endorsed the technique. No touching = no marring.
 
C. Charles Hahn said:
Well it certainly doesn't sound like you're using crap towels.







Regarding OC, what you might do is try seeing if Optimum Hyper Polish or Optimum Finish Polish will finish down haze-free (don't wipe the residue off, foam the car with OPC and pressure rinse to remove the oils), blow the car dry, and apply the OC with an airbrush or HVLP mini-gun.



I haven't played with that method myself but others have had great success spraying OC and Dr. G has quasi-endorsed the technique. No touching = no marring.
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I dont have the hyper polish or the finishing polish from Optimum. Also, this was the first time I was going to apply OC because I'd rather learn on family cars then customer cars before I offer it as a service. Maybe down the road when I'm more comfortable using OC I'll try the spray gun method.



Like I mentioned above the car is a garage queen, my dad doesnt drive it much. It would need to washed maybe once every couple weeks if that. I think I should be good applying something like XMT 360, sheeting the car dry, and blow drying the rest of the water.
 
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