up date on the Blackfire/ Zaino experiment

I

imported_memnuts

New member
I applied 20 coats of BF protectant over 60-70 coats of Zaino. So far no adverse effects ( hazing, breaking down of Zaino or inability of BF to bond with Zaino). I have been using Z6 as the QD with excellent results.

Update: The BF was topped this weekend with one coats of Z2 without ZFX. The results were great. The BF depth enhancement was retained with the reflectivity enhanced by the coat of Z2. The BF protectant is like Z5 but covers micro-marring better and adds carnuaba-like depth. Now the finish has the best of both worlds. A carnuaba-like wetness and a Zaino glossiness. I probably experiment next with the number of coats of Z2 that can be applied before the BF effect is nullified. :xyxthumbs
 
i cannot even begin to comprehend the number of coats you have on that car....



at least you know its nice and warm in the winter with 90 coats on! :eek: :xyxthumbs
 
this is interesting. i failed to accumulate sufficient data on blackfire versus zaino. therefore, i purchased BF to review it. i found it was more difficult to apply than i expected. i have since stripped BF on one half and applied zaino on the other for comparison. i don't expect i will be applying as many coats as you. buffing off the first application of BF was plenty of work. i have noticed that the BF is looking better after being driven for a week. i can't explain this. it is unexpected. i would think that when your done detailing, you are done - it can't get any better than this. i dunno. i have a lot of work ahead of me compounding the water stains i just learned of. the perfect finish deserves the perfect prep work, right?
 
hi GR8SVT,

This is my toy car. It is rarely driven leading to the fact that it maybe washed once a month just in order to use Z7 and remove any pollutants that may have settle on the finish. I am able to accumulate these many coats because Zaino and BF are so easy to apply and buff off. Since all these layers are applied indoors in a heated and AC garage the activity is never weather hindered or time stressed. I can apply a coat in the AM and then do some yard work or errands and come back and buff later. Over a matter of 9 mos it is easy to accumulate these sealants. Is there a leveling of improvement after so many layers. Yes, I find 20 coats is the point in which results level off.



hi mr.w,

When I first applied Blackfire I used a cotton applicator. This resulted in a thicker uneven application. I switched to a Viking foam applictor and BAM!!!. The coats were thinner and dried almost instantaneously. Buffing was as advertised ... effortless. Try a dry foam applicator. The BF instructions stress to use a dry applicator and it seems to me the a cotton applicator soaks up the polish and creates problems. The Viking does not become saturated ( stays dry). Too bad you stripped the Zaino on one side. You could have done a BF over Zaino experiment and compared the Zaino side verses the Zaino/BF side :wavey
 
blkZ28Conv said:


hi mr.w,

When I first applied Blackfire I used a cotton applicator. This resulted in a thicker uneven application. I switched to a Viking foam applictor and BAM!!!. The coats were thinner and dried almost instantaneously. Buffing was as advertised ... effortless. Try a dry foam applicator. The BF instructions stress to use a dry applicator and it seems to me the a cotton applicator soaks up the polish and creates problems. The Viking does not become saturated ( stays dry). Too bad you stripped the Zaino on one side. You could have done a BF over Zaino experiment and compared the Zaino side verses the Zaino/BF side :wavey
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ok. i will try the foam applicator. i was using MF app. is that true for the zaino also?



the whole truck is BF. i stripped off half the hood and applied Z. i could put BF on top. i want to see how they compare on my daily driver though. initial inspection reveals no difference in appearance. the BF changed in one week. so we will see how it goes in the next week or two. i have a garaged car in addition. my first concern is protecting the daily driver. sort of backwards of what most people think i guess.
 
With Zaino I use the 100% cotton applicators because of the ease of cleaning. I have used foam for Zaino and they work great but cleaning completely, especially after using Z2/5 with ZFX , was almost impossible. The foam tends to harden and I just did not trust to re-use on my finish. The cotton applicators remained soft after a machine washing and last 3-4 mos before needing to be replaced. Many on this forum prefer foam for Zaino application because of the ease in which a very thin coat can be applied. After months of practice I am now able to apply very thin coats with cotton.



I can not state anything about durability because neither Zaino or Blackfire on my Z28 have been exposed to any bad weather or long exposure to UV radiation.

I use Zaino because I love the reflectivity and gloss. I like BF for its micro-marring filling and carnuaba-like depth.

Why do I not just use a high-end carnuaba? For 30 years and many paste waxes and systems I have never achieved the results that I am getting with these two sealants. :nixweiss





"Seeking the ultimate finish is what auto detailing is all about me".:xyxthumbs
 
you are making myscrape penies to get some bf! I was broke, now i'm really broke! I am never readin one of your post again. ;)
 
samiam513 said:
you are making myscrape penies to get some bf! I was broke, now i'm really broke! I am never readin one of your post again. ;)
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Do not feel alone. This can be an expensive hobby but soooo enjoyable. I think we all suffer from the desire to try new produces that other autopians have had success with. Fortunately, everything goes through the wife so I must taper some of my desires in order to justify keeping her out of Bloomingdales, Saks, Wally's World, Target, etc. :D



But in reality I find it cheaper to maintain a car mechanically and appearance wise than to purchase a new car every 3-4 years. When I buy a car I plan on having it for awhile. To keep thing exciting ultra detailing keeps the new car bugs away. How can one justify creating a debt with a new car purchase if the present car still runs and looks great?:nixweiss Let's face there it, there is nothing finer than a new car with its new innovations. But is it not great seeing an older car that has been taken perfect care of. A 356, 914-6 Porsche, a TR6 , a XKE , 69 Vette, or an original VW Beetle attracts my attention when one is seen going down the road. They get my :xyxthumbs



Of course this all will change if several million dollars suddenly appear in my checking account.
 
blkZ28Conv,



This is very interesting! Do you feel that the Blackfire as the base coat(s) would give a deeper, darker, wetter look, or do you feel it might take away from the durability if the Zaino was put on top of the Blackfire?

How would you "mix and match" the two on a daily driver? I wouldn't mind the added depth and wet look that Blackfire seems to give!





I'm looking to experiment, and this sounds like a great option!

My truck is a "medium" color.......... Dark Shadow Gray.



Thanks
 
Trying to get a feel for what you are describing, but I am having a hard time deciphering between your're description. Quote: “ A carnuaba-like wetness and a Zaino glossiness.�



What's the difference between the “wet-look,� and “glossiness?� It almost sounds the same.. well it does to me. Can you elaborate? Thanks!
 
masterofreality said:
Trying to get a feel for what you are describing, but I am having a hard time deciphering between your're description. Quote: “ A carnuaba-like wetness and a Zaino glossiness.�



What's the difference between the “wet-look,� and “glossiness?� It almost sounds the same.. well it does to me. Can you elaborate? Thanks!
Click to expand...



Wetness = the appearance of pigmented paint when still in a can or just sprayed on car.



Glossiness= the clearcoat appearance as seen from a very acute angle while viewing the side of a car. There is shine (gloss) but the color is not emphasized



I differentiate the emphasize of the pigment verses the clearcoat (non-pigments) appearance of the car's finish produced by a protectant. Zaino on dark pigmented cars emphasizes the the clear coat with great results. Blackfire emphasizes the pigmented layers similiar to a carnuaba. My experiment is to achieve both Zaino gloss and BF wettness/ carnuaba-like depth. :wavey

Hope this clarifies my statements and results. By the way there is another very interesting experiment going on as we speak and may be revealed by its author soon.:nixweiss
 
White_F150 said:
blkZ28Conv,



This is very interesting! Do you feel that the Blackfire as the base coat(s) would give a deeper, darker, wetter look, or do you feel it might take away from the durability if the Zaino was put on top of the Blackfire?

How would you "mix and match" the two on a daily driver? I wouldn't mind the added depth and wet look that Blackfire seems to give!





I'm looking to experiment, and this sounds like a great option!

My truck is a "medium" color.......... Dark Shadow Gray.



Thanks
Click to expand...



I treated Zaino as a clearcoat augmentor. The multiply layers of Z2/Z5/Z6 really improved the clearcoat appearance but even after 60 -80 coats did not give me the depth I desired. Since topping with a carnauba was not an option ( previous experiments with Meg#26 and P21S not to my liking), I thought that the topping with a polymer sealant that emphasized a carnuaba-like appearance my be the answer. Like any building the strengh of the structure is the foundation. Zaino is know for its great durability and BF is still up in the air. Therefore, if BF durability( bonding to actual paint surface) is weak the durability of the Zaino if used as a topper would only last as longer as the BF. With Zaino as the base sealant even if the BF durability is low the Zaino theorically will still be present.

On a daily driver I would have the base coats as Zaino and top coats as BF. BF is extremely easy to apply and dries instantly (20-30 sec cure time) and buffs off w/o hazing like Zaino ( a breeze). Therefore, the BF coat(s) can be maintained weekly with the investment of only 30-40 mins ( not including washing/drying car).

White F150 you might PM Siam513 and ask what we are presently doing concerning these to products.:D
 
masterofreality said:
Thanks for clarifying blackZ28Conv!



I'm such a noob.



Oh I think I found that other experiment... sounds interesting:

http://autopia.ws/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13795
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That is what this forum is all about. I continue to learn things and ideas everyday. A noob is the person who does not ask questions and assumes the answer. Car detailing is an ever evolving hobby with new products, procedure, techniques and tools constantly being introduced. This keeps things interesting, sometimes frustrating, and in most cases very rewarding.:wavey
 
blkZ28Conv,



Thanks, and what you said, makes good sense!



I see the thread by Siam513 on the "mixing" of the Z2/Z5/BF, and I'm going to give that some thought!



Thanks again!



blkZ28Conv said:




Like any building the strengh of the structure is the foundation. Zaino is know for its great durability and BF is still up in the air. Therefore, if BF durability( bonding to actual paint surface) is weak the durability of the Zaino if used as a topper would only last as longer as the BF. With Zaino as the base sealant even if the BF durability is low the Zaino theorically will still be present.

On a daily driver I would have the base coats as Zaino and top coats as BF.

White F150 you might PM Siam513 and ask what we are presently doing concerning these to products.:D
Click to expand...
 
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