Ugly white vinyl roof...

[Beach15]

When we first bought this '93 Fleetwood, the white vinyl roof obviously needed a good cleaning, but wasn't like it is now. Back then, we knew from experience that a good scrub with bleach worked wonders on the white vinyl roof on the Roadmaster we had just bought a few months before, so repeated the same process and before long, the Fleetwood's factory white vinyl roof was a flawless white--no kidding.



Stayed that way for over a year and I constantly applied protectant every time I washed it, and then by last year (we bought it in July of 2003), I started noticing it getting gray. Not gray in a dirty/mildew sense per say, but almost as if I had rubbed the finish off or something, but I wasn't sure how.



Jump forward to the 2 year ownership mark now, and it looks worse than it ever did before. I've been about as nice to it as possible from a care standpoint, but we have no garage and the car sits outside 24/7/365, though away from any trees, etc.



Another anomaly is how, even with most of it being gray-ish, right near the seams it is still perfect bright white and there's also a strange white square patch in the middle of it. Even weirder, in the past few months, these weird gray streaks have no also appeared down each side, even though it was mainly only the top that was gray before.



Shape wise, it's not ripped, cracked, torn, or loose anywhere, and if it were some color other than white, you'd probably never notice the "graying". I've tried various cleaners and nothing seems to work anymore, so unless someone else has a really good suggestion, I think it's just going to need repainted/re-dyed. As I said, the vinyl is technically in perfect shape, just the white color isn't.



Take a look:

Anyone here, with any vinyl top experience, know what might be wrong with this roof or have any suggestions?

 

[randomman84]

i really have no clue, but could it be standing water on the roof and streaks of water down the sides from rainstorms have stained it? Just my .02.

 

[Beach15]

i really have no clue, but could it be standing water on the roof and streaks of water down the sides from rainstorms have stained it? Just my .02.

That's a good guess, but I really have no idea what's even happened to the top areas and why there's so much "gray" now. If it were dirt, it would have come off now or at least partially been affected by now with my cleanings. If the white finish is actually wearing off though, how the heck could that be then running down the sides?



The strangest part to me is why the heck it has stayed PERFECT white within about an inch of ever seam.... :think: :think: :think:



It's a weird situation definately, and one, if it were my choice, would be remedied by simply tearing the stupid vinyl off to reveal the white paint underneath...b/c a vinyl roof is just SO tacky anymore, even though it's something from the factory on this '93 Caddy.

 

[Beach15]

Looking at it, I can't help but get the feeling that there's something that's either built up or soaked through it, but I'm still baffled as to what to do with it.



Has anyone here ever come across an "antique" like this with a lovely (... :idea ...) vinyl roof that had a less than stellar appearance?



Then again, I still have no idea what the heck is either on this roof or if the finish is off, or what....

 

[imported_themightytimmah]

I think that the bleach pulled the dye out over time, as its pretty strong stuff. If a good scrub with some 5:1 APC doesn't take it off, you'll need to go to the next step.



My next idea would be to go get the spray vinyl dye that Plasti-Kote sells. I think that will help a lot, as it is supposed to soak in. My friend used it to make some trim on his Passat black, and it looks decent. We got it at VIP (local auto parts store). It may never be 100% again, but it will be a big improvement.

 

[Beach15]

I think that the bleach pulled the dye out over time, as its pretty strong stuff. If a good scrub with some 5:1 APC doesn't take it off, you'll need to go to the next step.



My next idea would be to go get the spray vinyl dye that Plasti-Kote sells. I think that will help a lot, as it is supposed to soak in. My friend used it to make some trim on his Passat black, and it looks decent. We got it at VIP (local auto parts store). It may never be 100% again, but it will be a big improvement.

Thanks. That's what I've been thinking too. We only used the bleach that once when we first bought the car and it made the top a beautiful white, but I couldn't help but think that it also did more damage that didn't meet the eye for a while.



If I can't get it clean, a re-dye will probably be in order...

 

[danny]

I think this is all about solvents and placticizers.

The vinyl has plasticizers in it to make it soft and flexible but over time you ae going to get some shrinkage and the placticizers and solvents will dry out- This won't happen evenly and you will almost certainly get a difference between the centers of the panels and the edges.



I would think that whatever you have been treating the vinyl with has been soaked up and turned gray. My guess is that it gets soaked up less near the edges because these areas are not so stretched.



Or it could be where solvents or oils in the glue underneath have effected the vinyl. All vinyls are prone to something called solvent migration.



Iv'e been asked numerous times about limos with white roofs, they just don't seem to want to stay white forever. Most of the upholsterers and trimmers I know won't go near them, they are too much hard work. But the options are to either replace the vinyl which is expensive not least because they have to clean up all the glue before fitting the new layer. Or you can recolour it with a purpose made ink.



S.M.A.R.T. repair guys who do dashboards and interiors may be able to do this for you.



Hope that helps.

 

[Beach15]

I think this is all about solvents and placticizers.

The vinyl has plasticizers in it to make it soft and flexible but over time you ae going to get some shrinkage and the placticizers and solvents will dry out- This won't happen evenly and you will almost certainly get a difference between the centers of the panels and the edges.



I would think that whatever you have been treating the vinyl with has been soaked up and turned gray. My guess is that it gets soaked up less near the edges because these areas are not so stretched.



Or it could be where solvents or oils in the glue underneath have effected the vinyl. All vinyls are prone to something called solvent migration.



Iv'e been asked numerous times about limos with white roofs, they just don't seem to want to stay white forever. Most of the upholsterers and trimmers I know won't go near them, they are too much hard work. But the options are to either replace the vinyl which is expensive not least because they have to clean up all the glue before fitting the new layer. Or you can recolour it with a purpose made ink.



S.M.A.R.T. repair guys who do dashboards and interiors may be able to do this for you.



Hope that helps.

Thanks. That gives me a lot more insight into the problem, especially with the main discoloration being absent around the edges and the seams.



White vinyl trully is a major pain in the arse, and it's one thing I would NEVER order if I were the one buying this car new. However, the older guy who "custom ordered" it back in '93 just had to have the vinyl, and this is what it looks like now....



Too bad it isn't any other color (even if it wouldn't match the paint), because then you'd NEVER notice a thing. But with the white, it just looks ratty, even though the car is tip-top.

 

[brwill2005]

I think the bleach definitely did the roof in. Bleach, if it is chlorinated, is an oxidizer. If the bleach soaked in to the roof, overtime it may have oxidized the vinyl. What did you protect it with? The best thing would be something like 303 with lots of UV protection. Try a couple of applications of 303 and see what happens. Next time use a product made for vinyl to clean it

 

[brwill2005]

I think the bleach definitely did the roof in. Bleach, if it is chlorinated, is an oxidizer. If the bleach soaked in to the roof, overtime it may have oxidized the vinyl. What did you protect it with? The best thing would be something like 303 with lots of UV protection. Try a couple of applications of 303 and see what happens. Next time use a product made for vinyl to clean it

 

[Beach15]

After the bleach to clean the grunge off when we bought it two years ago, we never touched it with anything else but some 303 protectant. Then this year, as the gray became more noticeable, I really haven't put much of any protectant on it (been away at college for a large part), but have tried cleaning it a few times with either some Amazing Roll Off or just some Fantastic/all-purpose cleaner.

 

[Beach15]

Well, after pretty much coming to the conclusion that the only way I was ever going to have a nice looking roof again was to have it re-dyed or replaced (or, just rip the dang thing off....), had a change of events today and a GREAT result.



Simply put, it's ALL fixed now, and back to a beautiful bright white again!



It's been quite rainy and gray outside for a few days now, and the "graying" of the roof that you saw in the pics had gotten even worse, to a level so bad that it was nearly black in some places and just plain disgusting in others. Still couldn't figure out just what the heck was wrong with it, and based on various opinions, people seemed to think the finish was wearing off and/or the glue/padding going bad underneath and leaking through--turned out, neither was true.



To make a long story short, even my father realized how nasty it looked today and decided we'd try the "bleach scrub" method we had done when we first bought it. He mixed some bleach and a little water in a bucket, put on a thick glove and old clothes and started scrubbing with a kitchen scouring pad. At first, I didn't think it was working, but before long, BAM and it was getting white again! So, in the end, came to find that all the "nastiness" was actually just some pretty bad mildew that had formed after the car sat idle awhile in the driveway without much cleaning effort.



I've been told the "bleach scrub" probably isn't the best of ideas for a vinyl roof, but it's the ONLY thing that has ever worked to clean either one of our cars and, trust me, I've tried EVERYTHING known to man as far as cleaning products.



Here's some before and afters, just to show how DIFFERENT and normal it looks again :coolgleam :



Before:

After:

Before:

After:

Before:

After:

Before:

After:

Now, just gotta work on keeping it that way again......



Any suggestions on what to use as a protectant? I had been using 303 Protectant before I "slacked off" a bit with it, and now my father suggested just using wax on it, most likely something white and durable like Platinum UPP....not sure if that would work too well with vinyl. On the other hand, some other owners of the same car have suggested using Mop N' Glow, but I'm unsure about that one too.... :think:

 

[imported_themightytimmah]

A non-staining wax or sealant might work. UPP could work, but then again it might get caught up/be difficult to remove. Your best bet is clear Trim-A-Shield from Top of the Line, it isn't too expensive and I can vouch for its effectiveness.