Ugh, ran into a really sticky situation v.customer drove through something

S

Scottwax

New member
Got a call from a gentleman who was referred to me by the local BMW/Cadillac dealership. He had driven through something and since they don't do that type of work (or overspray removal), they suggested he call me.



I go out to look at the car and it appeared to be hardened tar that the owner of the car said had been there about 6 months. Some of it picked off with my fingernail, some wouldn't budge. Made an appointment for later in the week to remove it, seemed at the time it wouldn't be too hard to get it all off. Wasn't *that* much anyway, mostly the bottom 12" of the passenger side front fender and door, plus a little on the rear door and fender at the very bottom. I started off with some thinner to soften it up, only it wasn't softening it up. Plastic razor blades were bending trying to cut into the stuff and since it was a black car I felt best to not continue that route, too much risk of cutting the paint. Using my DA and rotary to try and get some heat into it to soften it up didn't do anything either. I was able to get about 60% of it off by picking at it but the areas where it had rounded off, it wouldn't budge because there really wasn't an edge to pick at. I got some out of the fenderwell and that is when I realized it wasn't tar but some sort of clear silicone sealer, like you would maybe use to seal the edges of a glass aquarium. Apparently the owner of the car had run over a tube of the stuff and thats how it got on the car.



I called a friend who suggested MEK, aka Methyl Ethyl Ketone, a product which my customer was aware of since he had seen it used to clean aircraft engines when he was in the Air Force so it is definitely some strong stuff. Nothing, didn't soften it a bit. I even tried wetsanding but as thick as it was in some areas, the risk of oversanding the surrounding paint was too great and even 2000 grit wasn't making any real progress. I then called a buddy who owns a body shop and he said he felt I had done everything I could to remove it that wouldn't harm the paint and that refinishing would likely be the only real solution. :(



In the end, I kept picking at what I could, ended up getting about 75% of it off, but the really thick stuff along the bottom molding wouldn't budge. Rewashed the car to make sure I didn't leave any thinner or MEK behind, then polished with D300 and D301 (using the appropriate Meguiar MF pads) and called it a day. My customer was pretty happy, said the improvement was very noticeable and that it was something he could live with because he really didn't feel like spending $1000+ on refinishing that side of the car. I ended up not charging full price for my time because I couldn't it off completely. I got about 75% off so I charged him about 75% of what I normally would have. I'm glad my customer is happy but it kind of bugs me I wasn't able to completely remove the stuff for him.



Anyone else run into something like this?
 
Scott, sounds like a weird ordeal. I don't know if a steamer or a heat gun could've softened up the stuff some :nixweiss



This stuff kind of sounds like that clear silicone gel sealer used to seal thresholds and around lower corners in bathroom walk-in showers too. I have some on mine. Maybe run down to Home Depot, get the manufactuer's contact info and pick their brains a bit about how to remove it. Maybe someone in R&D can help you out.



Also, I bet Ron Ketcham may have some good pointers either about how to remove it ,or what to do to get some info about doing it.



If you make more head way, this will be a good one for the reference manual!
 
The guy at Home Depot seconded the MEK suggestion, he said if that didn't work, he had no idea what would that wouldn't also hurt automotive paint.
 
If you know it was a shower door type of clear silicone sealer, I'd copy the manufacturer's info right off the tube and give them a call. If they have chemists who make the product, they should know something about removal.



It also might just be a case of the rest being able to come off in time. maybe with the summer's heat, eventually the rest will be able to be picked off. Might take several changes of seasons though. :nixweisss
 
No way of knowing exactly what he ran over, it was 6 months ago at least. He's an older gentleman, no telling how soon he noticed it after it happened. Not like he hit a tube of something, pulled over, picked up the tube and saved it.
 
Scott



This will be a very crude read, but have you tried mechanical removal with something along the lines of a plastic vinyl graphic spatula and trying to "chip" it off? I was in a situation exactly like yours once and resorted to carefully using a set of plastic chisels held a few degrees off of parallel and knocking the junk loose but with enough "space" that if I didn't hit it just right I wouldnt gouge the paint(similar to a pressure washer for paint overspray - hitting it at just above the base of the overspray). Then again in my situation it was little BB sized bumps of the stuff...



Mike
 
The problem is some of it was well rounded and there just wasn't enough of an edge for anything to get under it. Most of the stuff that had an edge to it and wasn't real thick, I was able to pick off.
 
I ran across something that sounds similar a while back, nothing would put a dent in it. I hit it with the steamer and it started to melt off after a while. Getting it off the garage floor was almost as fun. Stuff smelled sweet when heated up.... like the guy had followed a leaking molasses tanker or something. :shrug:



TL
 
Scott, I can understand your frustration. I had a similar situation, only with scratches. I did a Black Lexus not too long ago and all down the passenger side were terrible scratches. At first, I thought I was loosing my touch of not being able to get them out. Then, I ultimately wet sanded a section and re-polished and they were still there. Long story short, she was in a crash and had that side of the vehicles fender repaired. When they finsihed, they re-cleared the whole side (have no idea why), and cleared over the existing scratches, so there was nothing that can be done. She and I were a little disappointed, but I also knocked off some money since the reason she was there was to remove the scratches and swirls. It's a shame too, because the rest of the car came out beautiful, except that one side.
 
Sounds like a nightmare :scared:



This is "tha stuff" they don't teach at detail school :juggle:



Sometimes the smart move is to know when to say when :painkiller:



These smileys are AWESOME :rockon1:
 
What you did Scott was very good and honestly I would be happy(lucky) to receive any money seeing that the job wasn't fully completed. Knowing you, I'm sure you handled the situation very professional and everyone was happy with the end result.



I've come across some pretty bizarre contaminants throughout my years and this ones seems to be one of the most interesting. I always try planning these types of jobs out before starting them by doing a test spot in the worst area. That way I know that it can be totally removed.



Another thing that has been a huge secret for me, is having Ron Ketcham (when he worked @ Valugard/AutoInt) on speed dial. If you had the MSDS on something he knew the way the remove the problem the safest and fastest. And if you didn't have the info (which alot of time you didn't) he would walk you through a step by step removal process instead.
 
David Fermani said:
What you did Scott was very good and honestly I would be happy(lucky) to receive any money seeing that the job wasn't fully completed. Knowing you, I'm sure you handled the situation very professional and everyone was happy with the end result.
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My customer seemed really surprised when I told him the price, he said "are you sure?" and I told him since I knew he would still have to lay some money out to have it all removed (if he chose to do so) that I didn't feel right charging him full price. He was really happy with the shine on the side of the car we worked on, plus included in the price was washing the entire car plus dressing the tires and fenderwells-something I feel should be standard procedure for that type of work. Seems odd to me to work on 1/4th of the car and leave the rest dirty, you know?



When I had first looked at the car, I picked at some of the stuff and it seemed to not be too hard to get off but that was on the sheet metal, it was the stuff on the plastic bottom molding under the doors that was so tough to deal with. Underneath the molding, much of that would come off, but whatever was on the side of it that I guess the sun has baked on so hard was just not budging.



There is so much construction going on around here and so many trucks driving around that have improperly secured loads that there always seems to be something stuck on the sides of at least a few cars I see each month but nothing as bad as this one was.
 
Scottwax said:
My customer seemed really surprised when I told him the price, he said "are you sure?" and I told him since I knew he would still have to lay some money out to have it all removed (if he chose to do so) that I didn't feel right charging him full price. He was really happy with the shine on the side of the car we worked on, plus included in the price was washing the entire car plus dressing the tires and fenderwells-something I feel should be standard procedure for that type of work. Seems odd to me to work on 1/4th of the car and leave the rest dirty, you know?
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That's what we call "working with integrity." :2thumbs:
 
MEK is some tough stuff. When I was in high school, I had a part time job working in a chemistry lab for a company that made commercial adhesives. We would test the adhesion properties of the adhesives on various surface types. MEK was the "stronger" of the chemicals we would use to clean the test surfaces. I remember back then (20 years ago), that I would wear heavy duty industrial nitrile gloves when using the stuff, and my hands would still get cold, inside the gloves, from the solvents in the MEK. Additionally, I was instructed to always use it under a vent hood.



On a side note, the only other thing that *might* have worked would be Tardis. I have a sample that michakaveli gave me, and left to dwell, it will remove almost anything.



Oh yeah, and at the hardware store, they do sell tubes of caulk remover, in tubes that look like caulk tubes. I don't know if that could be dabbed and smeared over each spot, let it dwell, and that might work????



Scott, sounds like with the deal you gave the customer, and I am sure the car looked great (as I have seen your work in person before), you probably gained the trust of this customer, and will get more work from him, or referrals in the future.
 
Acid wash ? I don't know, it sounds like you tried everything you could Scott. Once you've used so many chemicals too, you need to start worrying about causing CC failure. Looks like your customer was happy though, and that's what's most important.
 
Dry ice to harden/crystallize the solvent and then try plastic razor blades to chip it off? I know dry ice is used on automotive paints for dent removal so it should be safe. If heating isn't working to soften it up, maybe you gotta get it to the point of it getting so brittle it breaks off.
 
Scott,

I have a background in aquarium construction and I have used most types of silicone. The only thing that I have ever found which will remove it is a brand new razorblade. Heat guns and dry ice will do nothing. Remember silicone is what they use to keep the tiles on the space shuttle in place. Heat and cold resistance is why it is such an incredible adhesive. In reality the chemical bond formed between 2 panels of glass properly siliconed together (no bubbles etc) is more powerful than the actual molecular structure of the glass itself. Meaning, in essence you are more likely for the actual glass to crack and break from stress than for the silicon seal to fail between 2 panels of glass properly glued together at a 90 degree angle. Thats how powerful it is. If the customer trusts you to very very carefully use a razor blade to remove the rest then use touch up paint as necessary that would most likely be the best correction available. Once the chemical bond is formed between the silicone and its surface the only reason you were able to knock any of them off was because of the amount of contaminants between the silicon and the clear.
 
A local hotel was having the lot sealed and the pavers tangled and ruptured a pressurized hose while applying the heated sealant. Black spots heavily speckled 6 guest vehicles. I called in some help and we started the usual process just like you...also to no avail. As a last ditch effort, I decided make use of the strongest solvent I know of: carb cleaner. Carb cleaner will haze paint like APC if allowed to sit too long, so I kept a bucket of wash solution close to rinse while working in small sections. It was slow going but it worked. If any of you ever try this be certain to NEVER get it on plastic. It will melt and whiten it. I would also be certain thatbthe paint is not fresh or single stages it would probably remove it.
 
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