Todays trivia, how did those get there....

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breakneckvtec

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These are the pics of the millions of fine swirls that are now in my paint. Anybody wanna take a guess how they got there?

:angry I know the answer, I am just interested to see if others see the same thing as me.
 
Hi,



It's hard to tell from some of the pics, but in that last pic I see a few things. To me there appears to be some sort of clearcoat damage. It's almost like a rough uneven light milky hazy look to the clear. Is this correct, do you see this in person? If not please describe in better detail.



If the milky uneven condition is there a few things can cause it. The most common cause is too much polishing with a rotary buffer. See, if the clear is polished down to the spongy layer it begins to display a milky color. This is because most of the UV blockers and hardeners concentrae in the top .3 mil of the clear, once they have been polished away and it allows contaminates to breach the actual film build. I truly hope this isn’t the case because there is no way to repair this type of damage, the clear will eventually fail. :(
 
I can definitely see something on the spoiler and totally on the hood. I'm not sure what could have caused that. Didn't NYD just polish out all your swirls? That hood shot looks funky. I can see what Brad is talking about with the clear coat damage. Hard to tell without seeing it in person though. I think that most of all that can be taken out with some TLC and some time.
 
It appears that way but its not really, its just a ton of very fine swirls bunched together so it appears that way from the pics. At least in person thats the way it looks to me, no real milky appearance, thats the way the light grabed the millions of fine swirls. Funny you should say rotary damage....keep the comments coming, the more I get the more I can use this to help fix the problem. Help me out guys.
 
are these 'swirls' circular or straight? Tough to tell. They look like they are running straight down the hood lines. Interesting...
 
Ahhh yes, NY detailer did polish my car, with a rotary and tried to remove my swirls. He really just put more in though. The car was very dusty, could be felt with a finger run across. I told him to QD prior to polishing but he said it was unnecesary. I dont know if thats the cause, but this is what I have been left with. On top of that he told me that there was no reason to apply more protectant because it was still there, yeah that car looks like it was detailed a week ago uh. Then on top of all of this he accused me of trying to fix it and ruining it. What garbage, its been raining and I am waiting for the products to get here to fix the damage, if anyone wants proof I can post the tracking number and order I placed with CMA, even more than this, he wont accept responsibilty saying the swirls must be "in" the paint and wont refund any money, and if the clear fails I guess he wont be fixing that either. I dont think the clear is in danger though, its just alot of very fine swirls grabbing the light giving the milky appearance, and the spots on the hood are dust and dirt, that stuff sticks when wax isnt applied to protect the surface, you know.:angry :angry :angry :angry :angry
 
The pics were posted on the shine job he did, any fool can make a car shine, the art is removing swirls. I noticed he got none out, took it back two days later and he attempted to remove the very minor ones I had, and left me this mess instead.



Jngr- the swirls are circular, but I see what your talking about, he went front to back in that area, and the tons of swirls make it look a bit linear, from what I can tell there arent any scratches, just lots of swirls:angry :angry :angry
 
Well it's good to hear it's not milky looking. That's a huge plus. :up



As for the swirls, it's probably rotary swirls, especially if they are linear in formation. Most common causes of rotary swirls are improper angle. improper pad (or dirty pad), improper product, or running the machine at too high of a speed.



The good news is most rotary swirls can be corrected. :up
 
I can see the swirls/scrathes on the hood, looks nasty. Do you think that a PC with a cutting pad and DACP will clean that up? It's kinda hard to tell from the light and angle.

I thought you guys were buddies and were working together?
 
I was a customer before anything else, bottom line he ****ed my car up and takes no responsibilty. Hes a disgrace to honest hard working passionate detailers. Hes nothing more than a backyard detailer with a big ego and no results. And if I cant fix the mess, he will be a backyard detailer with a big ego, no results, and a lawsuit. I wont work for someone like that, I wont associate my name with anyone like that. I will detail on my own and make sure I never lose sight of this experience and treat my customers the right way.:mad:
 
When I got my wife's car back from a bodyshop after having the rear fixed from a minor collision (dope in an SUV not paying attention) the paint looked awesome. Then within a week all the buffer marks they had put into the paint began to appear. The glazes tend to hide it at first. The car really looked horrible, and had a rather holographic effect. Anyway, I was able to quite easily remove them with just a PC, a cutting pad, and some DACP. It's possible some SFP would have worked too, but I was eager to try the DACP. So, while it sucks, it hopefully won't be too hard for you to remove yourself. The fact that they come out easily is also sort of a testament to the fact that they aren't really very deep (even though they look terrible).
 
Instead of me starting a new thread, I will ask here, I hear tons and tons of good things about the DACP. Maybe I will try this prior to the FI II and see if the DACP can take care of the mess. The thing is I never see the stuff anywhere. I think meguiars makes it right? Where can I get it? Maybe I will go DACP with yellow CMA pad to see if I can get them, if not then I will go to the FI II and finish with the 3m SMR and a white pad. I wont give up, when I am done I am taking pics at the same angles with the light right on it, I will try to capture swirls. Lets see what I can do. I need a challenge, I start my first "pro" detail in 2 weeks.
 
breakneckvtec said:
Instead of me starting a new thread, I will ask here, I hear tons and tons of good things about the DACP. Maybe I will try this prior to the FI II and see if the DACP can take care of the mess. The thing is I never see the stuff anywhere. I think meguiars makes it right? Where can I get it? Maybe I will go DACP with yellow CMA pad to see if I can get them, if not then I will go to the FI II and finish with the 3m SMR and a white pad. I wont give up, when I am done I am taking pics at the same angles with the light right on it, I will try to capture swirls. Lets see what I can do. I need a challenge, I start my first "pro" detail in 2 weeks.
Click to expand...



I haven't used DACP yet. I am trying it for the first time on Saturday. I finally found an Autopian local for me who knows detailing! Smoker and I are going to attack some interesting swirls on a repainted trunk and maybe on my wife's car. We'll see. He told me last night that DACP would take care of my swirls with one pass. I'm interested to see that. Like with everything, there is more than one way to skin a cat. What you can to with 5 passes with #9 may be done with one pass with DACP. The end result is that the swirls are gone and that is all that matters. I'll let someone who is more familiar with DACP comment on how easy it is for someone to use when they are new with a PC. I hear it can gum up and is a little tricky to use.
 
I have used DACP exclusively for swirl removal in the last few cars I have worked. It is quite a bit more agressive than SMR or #9, but is still very safe, and for heavy swirls, still require multiple passes. The product has to be really worked in, or you get more swirls, because the buffered abrasives have not broken down.



I have not had the caking problem, but it does produce a lot of dust. In all fairness though, I have been using them on badly swirled and oxidized cars. For very light swirls, I would still use SMR. For your swirls, I think DACP would be appropriate, because I tried to help someone with the same problem on a black Prelude, and SMR was doing next to next with 2 passes.
 
Be careful with DACP, especially the new formula - it's a major PITA to remove, when compared to the older DACP. I had 2 bottles that I finally used up (1 was from 1998, the other from about 2001), and when I bought and used my latest bottle (Feb 2003), it was nothing like the "old" DACP.



ok, now with that out of the way....





I'm thoroughly confused here. It sounds to me like you're upset with the work that NY Detailer did on your car. But, when I went and re-read the thread about "Breakneckvtec + NY Detailer = 1 sic SI", it sounded like you both agreed that there were still swirls that couldn't be fixed after NYD was done. You mentioned that you would be going back to work with him on them some more.



Then, it looked like after a second try, the swirls were still there, and you were going to try to attack them with the PC and DACP. NYD warned you about getting too aggressive with the PC.



One of the last posts (on 3/20/03) was a final bit of advice from NYD about the swirls and that caution would need to be exercised when buffing.



So, my question is, if the swirls were there after numerous attempts, what has happened since? Was there ever a time when everyone was happy? Could you explain what has happened since those last complimentary posts from 5 days ago?



I think that before posting derogatory things about people's skills here, we need to find out what's happened and what has been said/done by both parties to fix the problem. This is AUTOPIA, not OT.net....



....just curious to find out what's really going on...
 
In my experience DACP and a PC wont cause swirls .. at all.



They sure reduce em pretty damn quick tho.



A rotary was mentioned .. i guess thats a whole different story which i cant comment on.





What I do know is some products will cover up alot of swirls until it begins to wear off, then the :eek: :eek: begins I suppose.





Without seeing it for real, I just couldnt tell ya, tho no car I've detailed has left me with more swirls than it arrived with.



I would be interested to heay NYDs side of things, as a professional his reputation should mean everything.
 
At the time of the first post I was happy. It was dusk and with the minimal light I couldnt really detect swirls. Then the next day it was so nice, but the sun also showed swirls that had not been touched. So I called him. He said bring it back and he will fix it. So, I did. He used the rotary at I think 1000 and his machine glaze along with a waffle pad. The car was pretty dusty and I said that he should at least QD it prior to polishing. He said it was not necessary. At the end of the buffing with the rotary the light was again minimal, we tried the lights but they didnt help. So I left. Then next couple days it rained pretty much non stop and was overcast. Recently, as in the last two or so days we finally got some sun, then the mess was exposed. Buffer swirls galore, swirls that I and my girlfriend said were never there. She even said it looked like ****, thats why she didnt take her car to him. I told him I was unhappy with it and he took no responsibility. The only thing he said was to bring it back and he would again try to fix it. He cut corners the whole way and I have given him enough shots. This is the first time the car has been polished so I truley doubt the few rotary passes he made took too much off, I think the clear is fine for future polishing. Bottom line is he cant remove a swirl to save his life and made my car worse. I am aware that there may be confusion but this is the reason for it. He wants to swear left and right that the swirls are "in" the paint and cant come out, ********, the swirls are from the buffer put in by him and his laziness and refusal to take his time and do the job right. The pictures speak for themselves. I havent touched the car. I dont even have the products, if someone wants me to post the order I placed with CMA along with the date of that oder to prove I dont have the tools to do something like this I will. I should have never took the car back to him, I had to learn the hardway. He can make a car shine nice, but cant remove **** when it comes to swirls. He wants to chalk his inability up to them being in the paint. I am sure Honda paints cars with swirls to piss people off:rolleyes: . Swirls are surface scratches in the clear, they can come out. My big worry is the damage he caused is not reversable. My mixed opinions on the job stemed from the fact that once I saw the car in the light I wasnt happy. Anything else I can clear up let me know, I have nothing to hide, he did me wrong and that should show clear.
 
Well, I too want to hear what Brian has to say. But it disturbs me that he didn't bother washing the car or even QD it prior to polishing. That seems very irresponsible and shortsighted since breakneckvtec is an Autopian, Brian should have known he could post his thoughts for all to read here.



I also want to know exactly what product(s) and pad(s) were used in the detail. My gut feel is that they play a big role. If breakneckvtec was happy for awhile until the swirls came back I'd guess that NYD used some sort of glaze.



And I'm sure this detail wasn't free. At the very least Brian should refund the money. I mean, we have an unsatisified customer here. The least Brian can do is offer a refund as an apology.



More to come, I'm sure...
 
I understand that you are unhappy with NYD's work, but I don't know that this is the proper place to air your grievances. Perhaps you should call him and take your problems up with him directly.



While you may well be justifiably unhappy, I don't think that statements like "hes a disgrace to honest hard working passionate detailers" are appropriate on a public forum. You cannot solve this problem by posting about it. For example, I saw the pictures, and I have no idea why the swirls are in your paint. I don't know whether they were there before, or whether NYD caused them. Neither does anyone else. We just can't tell by looking at the pictures. And even if we could, that still would not help fix them.



Nor can NYD defend himself. You say he caused the swirls; he says he didn't. The rest of us have no way of knowing who is right. Moreover, from the pictures I have seen, NYD is a capable and successful detailer. Even if he made a mistake -- and I am not saying he did -- I'm sure it was unintentional, and that he did his best on your car. Nor can he guarantee that the swirls will be fixed. Sometimes a disease is terminal, and no doctor, no matter how skilled, can cure you.



We all understand the pain of swirls. I'm sure that many members will have ideas on how to repair yours. If you are unhappy with NYD's work, please take it up with him directly. Let the rest of us figure out ways to help you.
 
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