The Rotary Learning Curve

[Accumulator]

An another thread, an Autopian posted:

I am simply put off by the learning curve for the rotary..

I didn't want to thread-jack with the following $0.02, hence this thread.



It's not like there's no middle ground between doing a flawless 2/3-step correction via rotary and spending forever with a less aggressive tool And speaking of middle ground, IMO/IME the learning curve for the rotary is three-staged, with the middle one nice and steep; it's the two stages on either side of that that take time/experience:



1) Doing *very* aggressive correction with only a few passes (i.e., with aggressive pad/product/speed combos) is something that could require experience to do safely



3) Doing final finishing on all paints, with zero holograms, is also something that probably won't happen the first few (or first hundred) times



-BUT- The good news is...



2) Doing fairly serious correction in a fraction of the time that a PC/etc. would take isn't very tough. With some study, common sense, and the right mental approach you can get a *LOT* out of a rotary without being a true rotary-Meister (voice of experience here ).



You might still have to finish out with the PC/etc. but the hard, time consuming work will be completed in a fraction of the time. The big worries- burning paint/etc. just don't happen unless you get careless, it's as much a matter of knowledge-base and mindset as anything else.

 

[howareb]

+1



I could not agree with you more on this one. The time saved with using a rotary is worth it as long as you say, you do not get careless. Respect the tool that you are using and as with anything else practice makes perfect. Get some panels from the area junk yard and practice. When I was learning how to use a rotary, I detailed an old heap in the back of my granddad's yard so that I could practice.

 

[Invigor]

One way I found that seemed to really speed up the learning curve was to watch many other people and how they do it...and go from there. To do it alone without any guidance is tough as nails because you're not really sure what you're doing, how to do it, why you're doing it, and what you should expect your final result to be. Once you see it done a few times by someone that knows what they're doing, it's a lot easier to see what you're after and how to get there.



And as good as you get, you virtually have to start over whenever you change polishing systems, because they all work differently, react differently to different situations, but once you get familiar with your chosen polishing system and pads you're going to use, it becomes something magical

 

[Accumulator]

... To do it alone without any guidance is tough as nails ..

I guess that's gonna vary with the individual. Leaving aside some coaching I got back in '79 (I didn't touch a rotary for 25 years after that and had never tried one on b/c before) I did it all on my lonesome; as I've posted before, I took the new Makita out of the box and used it on my beloved S8 with no real problems at all, just some holograms that came out with easily with the Cyclo. But that's just me :nixweiss and I researched the whole thing pretty thoroughly before I started and I *still* err on the side of caution.



Note that's *not* to say I'm an expert or a natural with the thing by any means :grinno: just that I knew exactly what I wanted to accomplish and had a (perhaps surprisingly) clear idea of how to get there. Other than some minor control issues (primarily with the orange pad) it went quite smoothly right from the git-go. I do think that decades of experience with the Cyclo transferred pretty well to the rotary, so maybe that had something to do with it. That and what I learned here and at Meg's Online- there weren't any real surprises, things went the way I was expecting them to go. Well, the "pick up polish lines with no splatter" didn't/doesn't always go so smoothly

..you virtually have to start over whenever you change polishing systems..

Heh heh, yeah, switching between 3M PI-III (short work time) to OCP (long work time) *does* take a little adjusting We'll soon see how quickly I acclimate to wool pads :nervous:

 

[salty]

There is a good learning curve to doing it well. As far as picking one up and trying it for the first time it is not that hard if you take your time. If you have previous machine experience, it helps.



The biggest problem beginners will have is edges and plastic-rubber trim. So tape off.



I also recommend to start with a finishing pad and a product with a long working time with lots of lube like OP and at a slow speed. Get the feel of the machine before jumping into more cut.

 

[wannafbody]

Soft start really reduces splatter. I find it's easier to finish with an orbital. As for correction, nothing compares to a rotary.

 

[imported_rydawg1]

Finishing with a rotary is where the true gloss and depth can be jumped out of the paint:spot It's my favorite part everytime.

 

[SVR]

Very true salty. Thats the best way to learn.

 

[imported_weekendwarrior]

I also purchased a Makita 9227 after having used the PC for a while. I didn't have anyone to show me techniques, but I read everything I could find about using a rotary on this site, and then watched the Meguiar's 5 part series on wetsanding/rotary usage on Youtube about a dozen times. I just make sure to tape up the trim and edges very well, and stay within the recommended RPM range on the product's label, and try to keep the buffer flat. So far, I have had no problems with Meguiar's, Optimum, or Menzerna polishes. I have some 3M UltraFina I want to try out sometime to see how I do with it.

 

[Invigor]

I guess that's gonna vary with the individual. Leaving aside some coaching I got back in '79 (I didn't touch a rotary for 25 years after that and had never tried one on b/c before) I did it all on my lonesome; as I've posted before, I took the new Makita out of the box and used it on my beloved S8 with no real problems at all, just some holograms that came out with easily with the Cyclo. But that's just me :nixweiss and I researched the whole thing pretty thoroughly before I started and I *still* err on the side of caution.

Ah, I guess I should have put in there the 9227 was the first buffer I ever picked up. I had no buffing experience what-so-ever beforehand. So going to the PC afterwards was easy as pie but very much disappointing in speed and smoothness. Still not sure why I bought one instead of a rotary.

 

[imported_slicknickis3]

I too taught myself how to use a rotary. I had been using a UDM and encountered a correction detail that ended up taking forever! I vowed to buy and then teach myself how to use a rotary. I ended up buying the 9227 and reading EVERYTHING I could find on using it, I also watched the Megs video on YouTube. All the information I gathered here and through videos gave me a solid base of what to do's and what not to do's. It was just a matter of fine tuning my skills and tolerances.



I just completed a 2-Step on a black Jetta yesterday hologram free, self taught.

 

[imported_themightytimmah]

Finishing with a rotary is where the true gloss and depth can be jumped out of the paint:spot It's my favorite part everytime.

Soft pad, high speeds... the difference over a DA really does come out in person.

 

[Accumulator]

Sometime I'll have to get out some finishing pads and a good final polish and work on that final-polish-by-rotary, though on the paints I'm working I can't imagine it looking better than my current burnished-by-Cyclo finishing. If I were doing black/red/etc. or working with different (hardness) paint it could well be a different story.



Last time I tried finishing with OP/LC white I still got light holograms...probably shoulda tried again with a LC black. This is on the (hard) '97 BMW...the softer repainted hood came out better than the OE paint.



wannafbody- Yeah, the soft-start on the Metabo and a little trigger-control on the Makita go a long way towards eliminating the splatter. So does not overdoing it with the amount of product



Invigor- I think the first polisher we get used to using sorta colors our views of any subsequent ones...well, as long as we *like* that first polisher

 

[imported_themightytimmah]

Sometime I'll have to get out some finishing pads and a good final polish and work on that final-polish-by-rotary, though on the paints I'm working I can't imagine it looking better than my current burnished-by-Cyclo finishing. If I were doing black/red/etc. or working with different (hardness) paint it could well be a different story.



Last time I tried finishing with OP/LC white I still got light holograms...probably shoulda tried again with a LC black. This is on the (hard) '97 BMW...the softer repainted hood came out better than the OE paint.

There's something to be said for the burnished via Cyclo and 1Z MP look, particularly on SS paint - I've got a click and brag coming out this week where I ended up using that strategy for a number of reasons.



On BC/CC, though, it's hard to beat UltraFina SE. OP can be a challenge to finish out via rotary, due to its insane working time and tendency to leave marring when not totally broken down.



If you have a good local body shop supply, it's well worth the money to pick up a bottle of UltraFina SE and one of their blue pads. I spend atleast 6 hours a week running a rotary these days, and UF probably saves me an hour or more per detail over other finishing polishes I've used (no need for a IPA wipedown vs. 106ff, faster cut vs OP, just a vastly better polish than anything CG's makes).



Or, I hear you have the new 1Z black polishes. Let me know if you want to trade for some Ultrafina.

 

[Accumulator]

There's something to be said for the burnished via Cyclo and 1Z MP look, particularly on SS paint ...

Yeah, the old version of MP is exactly what I use for that final buff, I'll have to try it on ss some time. On the (silver) S8 it simply got things as good as I can imagine them being, literally blinding in sunlight; I've never had anything so nice, never.



I'll be watching for your C&B!

OP can be a challenge to finish out via rotary, due to its insane working time and tendency to leave marring when not totally broken down...

Yeah, and my being used to the longer work times of 3M PI-III stuff doesn't help me in that regard. Still, I thought I'd do better.

If you have a good local body shop supply, it's well worth the money to pick up a bottle of UltraFina SE and one of their blue pads... I hear you have the new 1Z black polishes. Let me know if you want to trade for some Ultrafina.

Yeah, my local supply shop carries 3M. I can't see doing some areas with that big UltraFina pad :think: Yeah, I have a bottle of the 1Z and I plan to try that with finishing pads. If it gets things really close to perfect I won't mind doing a quick pass with the Cyclo (or PC/hand if I'm doing the Jag).



I do believe you about how good the UltraFina is, but I'm *REALLY* trying to not get more products on the shelf- I have gallons of stuff and I only do correction on very rare occasions. Thanks for the offer of a trade though...if the 1Z doesn't wow me I might take you up on it, if only to get *your* take on the 1Z compared with the UF. I've always been a big fan of 1Z stuff but ditto for some 3M products too (my regimen for the Audis is PI-III RC/PI-III MG/1Z (old) Pro MP).

 

[Scottwax]

Soft start really reduces splatter. I find it's easier to finish with an orbital. As for correction, nothing compares to a rotary.

Agree. I am not quite there where I can finish out 100% of the time swirl free with a rotary yet. Ultrafina SE is a big help but haven't used it enough to be sure I can finish perfect so when in doubt I use my UDM or Cyclo to finish.

 

[Pats300zx]

There's something to be said for the burnished via Cyclo and 1Z MP look, particularly on SS paint - I've got a click and brag coming out this week where I ended up using that strategy for a number of reasons.



On BC/CC, though, it's hard to beat UltraFina SE. OP can be a challenge to finish out via rotary, due to its insane working time and tendency to leave marring when not totally broken down.



If you have a good local body shop supply, it's well worth the money to pick up a bottle of UltraFina SE and one of their blue pads. I spend atleast 6 hours a week running a rotary these days, and UF probably saves me an hour or more per detail over other finishing polishes I've used (no need for a IPA wipedown vs. 106ff, faster cut vs OP, just a vastly better polish than anything CG's makes).



Or, I hear you have the new 1Z black polishes. Let me know if you want to trade for some Ultrafina.

Is the 1Z MP more of a cleaner/polish or one step?. I have a bottle and should really use it more.

 

[wannafbody]

FP2 works well as a finishing polish on a rotary.

 

[Accumulator]

..when in doubt I use my UDM or Cyclo to finish.

Glad that Cyclo is still being of some use I follow your machine-use advances with interest.

Is the 1Z MP more of a cleaner/polish or one step?. I have a bottle and should really use it more.

Not so easy to answer because AFAIK there are *three* versions of "1Z MP"!



There's the consumer line one, now called Metallic Polish with Wax that's a mild one step. It's protection doesn't last long though, so I think of it as a finishing polish with some wax in it.



Then there's the stuff I have: a 1-liter can with "Pro-Line" on the label..sorta greenish in color and *very* thick. It has some minimal synthetic protection in it but doesn't do any real concealing that I've ever noticed.



I hear there's a new version of Professional MP that's somewhat different from what I have (said differences elude me at presennt ).



Whichever one you have, I'd put some durable LSP on top of it anyhow.

FP2 works well as a finishing polish on a rotary.

I've only tried their FPI, and I didn't like it as well as the 1Z Pro MP...but that wasn't by rotary. My painter likes it though, so I bet others would think it's good stuff.

 

[imported_Bence]

OP can be a challenge to finish out via rotary, due to its insane working time and tendency to leave marring when not totally broken down.

Too much product.