Swirl removal too often? Dealer swirled car again

C

chevyguy28

New member
Current Situation: Let a family member take my black Merc to the dealer for an included service and told her specifically that under no circumstances should she let them wash the car. The service advisor convinced her that they would not put a scratch in the car, so she let them do the wash. It came back with more swirls than it's ever had. :(



Car's History: I did a complete swirl removal back in September using 3M FI-II and Menzerna Final Polish. It was the 2nd complete swirl removal in the car's history. For the first, Meguiar's #9 was sufficient. At this rate I'm averaging 1 swirl removal every 12-18 months.



Question: The swirls are starting to bother me, so should is it okay to do another swirl removal? If I plan to keep the car for 7-8 years, I hope the clear coat lasts. Or perhaps I should start considering filling the swirls, but then I'd have to switch away from Zaino and use perhaps FMJ and it's glaze.



Pretty mad at the dealer, but let's face it. My family member gave consent and the car still has less swirls than any of their used cars, so the dealer would probably laugh in my face if I showed him the paint.



- J
 
I hope you learnt your lesson. Never trust anybody.

FPII or #9 every 12 months I doubt is going to reduce your cc too much. Even IP or #83 isn't too brutal.

I wouldn't worry too much about most products until you get into the cutting compounds. Those applied with a rotary at high speed are a lot more aggressive and can still be applied several times.

Just *my* opinion. I'll be watching this thread to see what others say.
 
I think #80 Speed Glaze is mild enough to be used at least twice a year. It's an abrasive polish which removes swirls and at the same time leaves some fillers for left over swirls.



After #80, you can use AIO to hide the remaining swirls and then top with Zaino or SG.



At least, you know you're not cutting too much...
 
tripper_11 said:
After #80, you can use AIO to hide the remaining swirls and then top with Zaino or SG.
Click to expand...



Following #80 with AIO will remove any fillers that #80 left behind and reveal any swirls that #80 didn't remove. AIO doesn't have any swirl hiding ability. In fact if you have swirls AIO will actually make them more noticeable.
 
How about 3M's FI II RC. I've read that altho it is a compound, it more likely rated as an agrresive polish. What are your thoughts?
 
I've seen a lot of discussion re AIO chemical cleaning and abrasive properties. Here is another conflicting "fact" coming from Klassedirect.com



Klasse AIO



Extraordinary â€â€œ Outstanding â€â€œ Superb

The No-Wax Wax, Multi-Functional, Multi-Use

Acrylic One Step: Cleaner-Polish-Protectant

CLEANS: Removes Oxidation, Tar, Sap, Old Wax (No Abrasives)

POLISHES: Removes Surface Scratches, Swirl Marks (No Silicone)

PROTECTS: Acrylic lasts 6 months (No Wax & No Polymers)

SAFE(No Abrasives-No Silicone) VERSATILE(use on all hard surfaces)

DOES NOT STAIN PLASTIC AND RUBBER TRIM

ECONOMICAL(one ounce per car lasts six months)

MULTI-FUNCTIONAL(Cleans, Polishes, Protects)

LASTS-LONGER-THAN-WAX(need only use twice a year)

NO SILICONE, NO WAX & NO POLYMERS

WATER REPELLANT & HEAT RESISTANT

MAINTAINS SHINE(doesnâ€â„¢t break down like wax)

Use on CARS,BOATS,MOTORCYCLES,PLANES,IN HOME



REAL ONE-STEP TECHNOLOGY: All-in-One is a real cleaner, a real polish, and a superior protectant. Most people donâ€â„¢t have the time, knowledge, or desire to use a variety of steps and products. They donâ€â„¢t wax their car every month or two. Especially for results that wonâ€â„¢t even be as good as what you get with Klasse.
 
tripper_11 said:
What about this one:



http://www.autopia.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=497314#post497314



And the recent confusion that AIO contains abrasives:



http://autopia.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=51075&perpage=12&pagenumber=2
Click to expand...





The first link backs up what I was saying. AIO will remove the fillers from #80 and the swirls will be more visible.



Is AIO abrasive. IMO it is mildly abrasive. I have had good results removing compounding haze with it.





In your original post in this thread you suggest using AIO to hide swirls that #80 didn't remove. AIO does not fill. It not only won't fill the swirls but it will remove any fillers that were there from another poilsh.
 
JustinTRW- Unless the marring is much worse than I'd expect from your description, it should be safe to polish it out. We keep some of our vehicles a very long time and I wouldn't hesitate to do it. I'm only now at the "filling" stage with my '85 XJS, and I've polished its *very* soft lacquer many, many times over the years.



But you gotta remember that you can only do this so often, so do *something* to keep the dealer from washing the car and don't *you* mar it when you wash it yourself ;)



You know, even though it would be a hassle, I'd go have a talk with that service manager, preferably with the owner of the dealership present. IMO they did you and your wife a serious disservice, to put it mildly. When something happens to one of our vehicles, the appropriate people at the dealership (including the owner) hear about it. Heh heh, I can assure you that they don't "laugh in my face" ;) Quite the opposite.



Tinman- I'm not familiar with the FI-II RC, but the FI-II polish (I forget the exact name and part number) is OK and the PI-II RC is mild enough for occasional use too.
 
Thanks for the advice everyone.



I was thinking to use Menzerna IP and FPII. Never tried the former, but really enjoy the FP so I will give it a shot.



Accumulator,

I do put some marring into the paint by my own hand. Certainly I try to minimize this effect. This is also the second time the dealer has washed the car. That time I had told him not to do it myself. Perhaps I should mention this to the service manager just to let him know, but I don't know what I can expect him to do about it. Any suggestions on how to approach them about it?



- J
 
JustinTRW said:


I do put some marring into the paint by my own hand. Certainly I try to minimize this effect...
Click to expand...



Heh heh, well stop that :nono :D Just teasing. Maybe you oughta think about a foamgun. It sure is nice to *not* have to polish all the time.



This is also the second time the dealer has washed the car. That time I had told him not to do it myself. Perhaps I should mention this to the service manager just to let him know, but I don't know what I can expect him to do about it. Any suggestions on how to approach them about it?
Click to expand...



The way I did it was:



Call him up and tell him there was a serious problem at the last service call. It's a matter of your car having been damaged and it's the second time it's happened. You need to talk with him about it "to figure out how *we* can work this out" so you can keep patronizing the dealership. Say you don't want to get the Mercedes customer satisfaction people involved if you can help it, "we oughta be able to work this out, OK?"



He'll want to know "what the damage is?" but tell him you don't want to get into specifics over the phone because it wouldn't be fair to *him*. Then assure him again that "the two of us can work this out".



Go see him without having fixed the marring and do it when the weather/etc. will allow it to show. Give this some consideration when you set up the meeting, and do have a set time to meet, not just something like "stop by some afternoon".



Be very polite but firm. Lots of eye contact. You value your car quite highly. You care about this sort of thing. You will have to remove the marring by polishing with abrasives. You can only do this so often before you thin the clear, and you can never get back the time you spend doing this. They've damaged your car. This is the second time. You know what you're talking about. No, you don't want "their guy" to fix it. It shoud be easier on *them* to not have to wash it.



I say things like "there's no reason for it to get dirty when they work on it, so there's no need to wash it any way". Ask how can you and the manager make sure that nobody "accidentally" washes the car again, or do you have to find another dealership? It's that important to you and you're really trying to be reasonable.



I realize that this is a huge hassle and that some people would rather do most anything than get into a situation like that. But IMO it'll not only solve the "unwanted washes" issue, but it'll also give them the right opinion of you. And if it all goes *very* wrong, then it's good that it happens now instead of when they do something *really* awful. If you have to go elsewhere, so be it. But I'm quite certain it won't come to that and that youll be pleased with both the outcome and yourself (for having dealt with it properly).



I've *never* had another problem after doing this. I often got profuse apologies. And seriously, if they won't work with me on this I'll go some place else. I actually quit driving Benzes (we sold all three of them) because I couldn't get decent service (worse than just washing, but I'd already sorted that out with them). And there are at least two other Audi dealers between my house and the one I patronize (Stoddard Imports). The folks at Stoddard know that the reasons why I a) drive Audis and b) go there, are entirely a matter of how my cars are treated in their service department. They appreciate my business and joke with the guys at other shops about being "good enough" to work on my cars.
 
You should have seen it when the guys saw me digging through the glovebox getting my cardboard signs that in bright sharpie red says NO NEED TO WASH or DO NOT WASH. I put it on the windshield and rear windshield (for the sedan) For the minivan, I created this giant one that occupies half the windshiled on the front right.



They actually did the before-delivering detail quite well. Rather surprised.



I've even plan on asking my Spanish friend how to write it in Espagnol.
 
I get a solid marker AKA a grease pencil and write on the glass front and rear "please do not wash." I talk with the service writer before hand and let him know that I put it on my car and why. So far, so good. Next week I am taking my car in for some routine maitenance, we will see.......
 
stevet said:
The first link backs up what I was saying. AIO will remove the fillers from #80 and the swirls will be more visible.



Is AIO abrasive. IMO it is mildly abrasive. I have had good results removing compounding haze with it.





In your original post in this thread you suggest using AIO to hide swirls that #80 didn't remove. AIO does not fill. It not only won't fill the swirls but it will remove any fillers that were there from another poilsh.
Click to expand...



What about the before and after pictures?



I've noticed this also first hand. Though it will not hide/eliminate moderate swirls, AIO seemed to lessen the appearance of the swirls.



My original post suggesting AIO is based on my OWN first hand experience and coincided with the before and after pics in the first link.



And #80 does not ALWAYS fill. It's trully an abrasive polish which you know is 4 in Meg's scale. I'm giving it the benefit of the doubt albeit the long debate/allegations that it contains the TS oils which are fillers.



If it happens to leave some minor swirls/holograms, AIO may do the job. That was my intention, and that was what i mean. Thus, the user get to cut enough, and fill enough, thereby not cutting to much clear and may last up to the whole period of his ownership. (though some moderate swirls may still be apparent, at least it has lessened)



I did not intend to to mean that AIO will remove swirls which #80 weren't able to remove because it might have been full-fledge moderate swirls that only #83 can handle. #83 is too abrasive and I would not recommend for 1-2 times a year polish. Else the clear coat may not last the whole period of 7-8 year ownership.



Am I cleared?
 
Yeh i had this same problem, I had my car swirl free, and its a daily driver, i really do mean swirl free too!



So the guys paint the back end which had been hit, bearing in mind i told the recpetionist to take a note that i do not want my car washed.



Yet the day i pick it up they phone and tell me its ready then say oh by the way it was so dusty from painting and sanding we had to wash it! And guess what they used an old sponge and water only.



The car was covered in swirl marks, I admit it only took 4 hours to remove but i shouldn't have had to do it in the first place. It needed ssr2/5 on an orange sonus to remove then #80 on a polishing pad!! So they weren't just playing around!



John.
 
JJ- Paint repairs are always a tough one, they pretty much *have* to wash the car before they can work on it anyhow. Maybe have a talk with them about how they're gonna do it and offer to supply the right stuff or even go there and do it for them. I'm sorta fortunate these days as the guys who do our cars know me and understand how to keep me happy.



I just picked up our A8 after some paintwork. No wash *after* they shot it, but they did have to wash before. I just made sure to get the car to them on a nice day with it already clean. They knew not to use anything nasty on it ;)
 
Put a note on the dash readable from the outside of the windshield "dont wash my car, or i break your arms!"
 
I've had to put a note on my navigation screen on my 2004 Acura TL to make sure they don't wash mine. A dealership swirled my car sverely a few months ago and I had to get it professional detailed. However, in the few months since I've developed an interest for detailing myself and have got most of the right chemicals/tools to take out the minor swirls on my car.



Most recently, a bird took a large shat on my car and the gravel or pebble or whatever was in his diet caused several scratches in the paint. Fortunately I had some Menzerna handy and after I washed the car used Final Polish II to take out most of the scratches. Car still looks pretty darn shiny... just "pops" out atcha!
 
Look at what the lot monkeys (dealer) and the winter has done to my car so far.



:sosad
 

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