Standard transmissions; my impressions on my first run / thoughts

S

schoi

New member
Okay, some of you probably remember my new car / grad. present / Corvette post a month and a half ago or so. Well, one of the nagging questions for me has been: If, by some chance, I have the (incredible) opportunity to get one, do I go for auto or standard?



Today, I drove a manual Cavalier. First time ever with a stick. I've been wanting to try this to see if I would really find it as fun as some people do. Of course, the vast majority of the market is for automatics. Regardless, I had to find this out for myself. My impressions, as an 18 year old on his first go, are:



(a) That first gear thing (getting started from a standstill) is, or can be, a b1tch.

(b) Sometimes, smooth shifts are, too.

(c) I'm a real perfectionist in the stuff that I do, so I start to get annoyed at those little rough patches in the shifting, you know? Frustrating sometimes. Not cool.

(d) I realized that I am more for the sensation of speed and acceleration more so than I am for having to row my own gears to get that. After all, it is all about perception.

(e) Comments made to me about how I'm not going to feel like doing it some days definitely seem true.

(f) Mileage is kind of a null issue for me, as I probably wouldn't get great mileage regardless of transmission. :p

(g) About the performance thing: Depending on many factors, a manual will only have, at most, a few tenths of a second over its automatic counterpart. I think that this will be pretty hard to notice. After all, when we're talking about a car that can do 0 to 60 mph runs in five seconds or less (I'm assuming the auto can do that... right?), it's already quite fast. My 'Bring is nowhere near that.



So, all in all, I can definitely understand the appeal of a stick shift. However, I equally realize the "pain in the as$ factor;" at least, that is, for me. I know that it would get much, much smoother, and it is possible that I would love a manual if I drove one more often.



On the other hand, when we're talking about cars like this, I would think that enjoying it (and that perception) is more important.



And, I'm sort of pleased to report that I only stalled it a few times. Keep in mind that I was doing this completely alone (at my request) and was going solely on the multiple guides to manuals, how they work, and how to drive them that I have read. :up



So, yeah, there you go. Anyone have any comments?
 
Ahh the dilemma...Everyone has their own tastes about auto or manual true enough. Me myself, I won't drive anything else but a standard. One advantage to this is it keeps my wife from driving it. :D But seriously, you may just need some more practice to get used to it. It just might grow on you. I've learned over the years to shift while eating, drinking etc. It takes some time but it soon becomes second nature. Shifting smoothness varies from car to car. Some cars shift smoothly and others have a more rough engagement. Once you've mastered it you just may enjoy it. I used to hate standards too, so I know where you're coming from. For me, manuals are simply a blast to drive! Good luck in your decision!:xyxthumbs
 
It becomes less of a PITA when you are used to shifting your own however, if you are the type to eat, talk on the phone or do anything else while you are driving, you will become frustrated daily. Driving automatic takes one leg and one hand. Manual requires twice the limbs so you are a little more busy. I always prefer manual for small 4 cylinder vehicles. I feel like I am "getting more" out of the car. Smoothess will come with experience.
 
Once you are experienced, it doesn't become a PITA at ALL to start from a stop. It's something you don't even think about and you do it 'automatically'....even in stop&go traffic. My wife used to loathe my car and its manual tranny, but after several lessons and a few hours behind the wheel, she's really starting to enjoy it and sometimes prefers it over her car (I drive a 4 cylinder econobox and she drives a new BMW).



I'm very biased towards manuals and until I physically cannot operate one, I won't even consider anything else.
 
Driving a manual will be as normal as getting dressed in the morning. I drive a 4.2L f150 manual which has the same interior as my mom's expedition. When I drive her truck, my left foot taps the floor every time I stop. That's just becasue I am soo accustomed to pushing in the clutch at a stop. It takes me 5 mins to remember what I am driving.



I am considering getting a new vehicle soon. The only way I would get an automatic is if I get the lightning I am looking at right now. All others are manuals.
 
I just went from automatic back to a manual and I have to say..... I really do prefer a manual. After driving the manual for awhile you will not have a problem getting off the line. As one other poster said, you wont even think about it. The same goes for the smoothness between gears.... you will just get better at it. Also I feel like I have more control in a manual car. I don't speed as much as I do in an automatic because when my foot gets a little heavy I hear the engine revving. In the snow a manual is much better IMO because you can downshift to slowdown. In a manual I just feel more in tune with the car. Finally, nothing beats a good handling car with a manual trans on twisty back roads. If your getting a vette go for a standard trans.
 
Right now, we have both manual and automatic cars.

One thing I really like about the manual is the fact that you have to be involved with driving the car. No drinking, no cel phone use, no messing with stuff when you should be paying attention to your driving.

One thing about the new Vette's, all you have to do to go like heck in an automatic is stomp and steer. With the ABS, TCS and the automatic, most any klutz can go fast and stop fast.

You will no doubt love the car whichever way you go.

That said, I have a 4 speed in my old Vette and I can't imagine having anything but a manual.

You will get to where you can shift as smoothly as the auto after some practice. It becomes a source of pride when people can't tell when you change gears with the manual. (Other than tire spin):xyxthumbs



Charles
 
Only manual for me, please . . . few things are as satisfying as a perfectly rev-matched downshift into a corner. Not to say I'm perfect every time, but practice is fun!



Don't let initial awkwardness deter you from a stick . . . if you can, keep practicing and make your decision after you become comfortable rowing your own. You'll be better able to decide what's right for you, IMO.



Good luck,

Tort
 
Well i'll give you my opinion since i drive both daily. I think it all depends what you plan on using the car for. My work truck is automatic and i wouldn't have it any other way as i'm constantly driving in stop and go traffic. Stop and go traffic in 5spd is terrible.



My car on the other hand is 5spd. It's my weekend car so it's not really an issue for the stop and go traffic. Given a little bit of time you should have the shifting down to near perfection but i would not suggest learning on a corvette. you may want to pick up a beater car just to practice on.
 
Bleh, I dunno. You know how I was saying that it's all about perception? Well, it's the same idea. In a Corvette, after the break in, if I decided to do a 0 to 60 run from a stop, no doubt it'd be a rush, right? Even in an auto.



I know that you guys are right that it'd become more "better" if I spent more time with a stick. Other than the occasional drink, I always focus on *driving*, so that's not a problem. The possibility that I won't want to drive standard in the mornings sometimes is always there... although I typically haul *** to school (lol... my neighbor one morning at a stop sign, rural area: "I'm just gonna let you by because I know that you're gonna pass me anyway!"), so that might be more fun.



So there you go. Thanks for all the feedback. I don't suppose anyone has any little tips should I get the chance to do it again one of these days? (As of right now, there is a black coupe and silver Z06 available locally...)
 
I got my first manual transmission car last november. For 6 years before that i've been driving automatics.



Things I like about manual trans:

-Makes me pay attention to driving more. I've become more cautious an attentive since I have to know in advance what i want to do before I do it. I pay more attention to traffic lights and the traffic around me. Like many other people, I would occasionally almost accidentally take off when i see a green left turn only arrow.. I havent come close to having this problem since driving my car.

-Trying to get perfectly smooth shifts gives me a fun diversion while i'm driving. I just have fun on trying to improve my shifts.

-not having to brake on flat ground waiting for a light, or at the gas station, etc..

-not having to brake as much coming down steep hills (I'm in San Francisco).

-most people wont be able to borrow your car :xyxthumbs



Things I dont like about manual trans:

-going up hills

-going up steep hills

-stop and go traffic

-stop and go traffic going up hills

-other people you go out with probably wont be able to take over when you get tired of driving all day. small price to pay to prevent others from driving your car i suppose.
 
I think a lot of points that I would have brought up have been well-covered. :xyxthumbs I think it might depend on some specifics too, like how easy or pleasant is it to drive as a stick shift. If the clutch feels too heavy or the shifter isn't very smooth or direct-feeling it could make driving it less fun day-in-day-out.



I also think for commuting or a lot of city driving an automatic is better. It's less fatiguing and mentally demanding to drive, which is nice for 9-5 people. Also, you can just mindlessly mash the gas pedal to sieze that gap in the traffic and not worry about what gear you're in.



Likewise with the issues about hills, other people being able to drive your car, and also passengers sitting in the car with their heads jerking around a bit. :D It feels fine perfectly fine to me, but there they are, head jerking about for the first couple gears... I remember getting a ride once from someone with a stick shift BMW and he was pretty brutal - this was before I was driving sticks but it was so rough I couldn't stop to admire the car. I suppose this shouldn't be an issue with a Vette though...



Some of the pluses of getting a manual are a) In a "driver's" car it shows you're serious about the driving experience (yes, this is an ego thing :p) and b) You can control the shifting yourself, which is good for control freaks, people who want to be in touch with the car's operation, and for when you want to hold 1st gear a bit longer to show off... :D The fuel economy and acceleration advantages are, as you are probably finding, more fluff than significant with newer cars.



I still think how easy and nice it is to drive with a stick are big factors though. For example, in the 80's Honda manual transmission cars were slick shifting and fun to drive so they were popular optioned this way. Domestic manual transmission cars were not so they were not popular optioned this way.
 
Learning how to drive a manual car for a day and then choosing whether you want auto or manual is not going to do any justice cause you will choose the auto for sure. When I got my standard I didn't want it after the week cause I sucked...but honestly you will get good at it and you will love it because it's fun (as long as you arent in stop and go traffic)
 
I posted this for another board and will rephrase here:



Even though a lot of people rag on autos because they think they are slower (whether they are or are not), the driving experience is completely different. Most people either like manual trans in everyday life or they don't. You can make an automatic quicker to compensate for the extra drivetrain loss and usually one less gear, but manual enthusiasts don't care. To them automatics are simply less fun. Funny you mention perception because that is why many of us prefer manual. We think we are in more control and we think it is quicker. Like I said, it is a preference. It seems to be based on personality. If someone gets the opportunity to drive a good vehicle with a manual trans (the Corvette is one fine example I have been priveledged to drive) and a light bulb doesn't come on, then please let them enjoy their automatics.



Why do I prefer manual trans?



1) Control. I am in complete control of the gear and therefore power availible for use. No automatic I know of (save the likes of F1, SMG) allow me to control the gear exactly. Manumatics, autostick, etc are nothing like a true manual trans as far as driver control. If you need details, I can expand.



That leads to 2) feel. When I have control of a manual trans, I feel more connected to the car, to the engine characteristic, to the road. When I push on the gas, I have imediate acceleration. No hesitation while the computer figures out what gear it thinks I want.



3) Efficieny. Manual trans have less drivetrain losses than manual transmissions. Less loss = more power availible where I need it, at the wheels.



Those are the main three and are highly subjective and intangible, unquintifiable.



I actually think manual trans are better in traffic, except 0-10mph stop and go. I drive 35 miles through Detroit/suburbs each way during rush hour. I encounter a lot of traffic. As long as I am mostly moving, shifting gears is not a big deal. But repeated first gear launches are the only thing that I notice. In my experience, the hard 0-60 launchs are rare in daily driving. For me, the 20-50 is common, and the 50-80. Automatics will leave you in overdrive at 20mph (in a Corvette that is really tall) . I had to slow down for the car that turned onto the sidestreet in front of me, but now I want to get back up to speed. I press on the gas, and about 2 seconds later it downshifts which takes another second and then I accelerate. Meanwhile in a manual trans, I have already downshifted to second or third ready to go. Similar can be done by gate shifting an automatic, but no automatics I have driven feel like they were meant to be manually controlled. And the torque converter still delays things.



The VW slogan is good. ...there are passengers and there are drivers. What are you?





Anyway, I won't tell you to buy (or receive) the manual because many people just don't have the same preferences. Go test drive some new Honda/Acura Sticks. Or, a Mazda stick. They have good feel and are average weight. The C5 I drove was not much different than some much less performance oriented vehicles I have driven. Never driven a Cav stick so I don't know how it compares. More practice may not change your mind, but should let your own preferences come out better. All of your points (a-g) are not valid to me, or at least I do not agree personally. For you, they may still be valid, but I don't think you have had enough experience to rightly make a determination.



Aaron
 
Do you want to DRIVE the car



or



Do you want to drive IN the car



Aaron sums it up with the VW slogan...



I drive a 5-speed Mazda Protege5 - I would not drive a 4 banger w/o a std.



A little story;



Prior to the Mazda, I owned an 1991 Alfa Romeo 164. Nice car. 6 cyl. Automatic tranny. Lots of highway power-car loved to cruise at about 90 mph. A little pokey getting up tp speed, however.



The mechanic that worked on that car is a big Alfa guy. Has/still owned many different models including 2 or 3 164's just like mine. Except for one manual tranny model.



One day I asked him to let me take a test drive in the manual tranny verison of the 164. He said something like "You probably shouldn't- you would hate your automatic after driving the manual."



I didn't drive it-I did not want to "feel" the difference-I knew what he meant...



A manual with a 6 or 8 cyl. is an awesome feeling.



Take the auto out in traffic, step on it and pass someone. Then take an manual out in traffic , downshift, step on it and pass someone- :D if the difference does not make your heart beat a little faster - get the auto!



DomZ



P.S. Dang, just thinking about a 'vette w/a manual, up-shifting and down-shifting in traffic :p

Sure, a Crown Vic or a Caddy should have an auto, but a sports car?:nono
 
Daily Drivers - automatic ( 2 of 3 are 300+hp )



Auto-stick - pain in the A$$. Shifting without a clutch stinks. My sister-in-law has a 330i and after a block of driving semi-manual I just placed it back in drive. Felt weird. :nixweiss



4 Classic Chevy Hotrods ( rarely if ever driven) all manual. Nice for a change.



Polaris my slightly altered ;) Z28 does 0-60 in 5. Your auto Vette will have NOOOOOO problems.:wavey
 
well no one can convince you on your decision of what to get, however, i can honestly tell you driving a 5 speed honda civic everyday and driving a 5 speed thunderbird supercoupe(supercharged), there is no replacement for the feel of the power and control of the gears. Now my gfs 1998 z28 convert, its got power for an auto, but i really didn't like driving it bc that d*mn tranny delays shifts and i hated waiting for it to go into the next gear. It pretty much shifted horribly, and i wanted to just take my honda civic that day instead of driving her car(ended up getting in a 4 grand accident stopped at a light bc some guy decided to jump a curb and ram me and my gf in the door), so i guess it was good not to take my car. Anyways, back on topic, if you don't really like to feel a car for what its worth, than the autos for you. HOWEVER, If you really want a true feel for a car, i can honestly tell you that 5 or 6 speed manual is the way to go and that would be my choice since i prefer a stick over an auto anyday. Not dissing anyone with an auto, i just love shifting cause its really fun.
 
I think it has a lot to do with function. If it's going to be a daily driver, and you have any reservations about stick, go with the auto. But if it'll be a weekend car, go with a manual. You won't be in stop and go, and you won't take it out on days you don't want to shift. That's it.



For a big truck, I always want an auto, but for any car, I prefer stick.



Get the one you want. Everyone has gvien their reasons here, but you have to find your own.
 
Thanks for the feedback, guys. I agree in that a manual is definitely a great thing, and true to sports cars, but like I said, I have no complaints with the auto.



Z28 does 0 to 60 in 5 and is an auto? What have you modded on it? (Of course, it was probably pretty fast stock anyway. I didn't know they offered Z28's in auto.)



Again, thanks, everybody. :xyxthumbs :xyxthumbs :xyxthumbs
 
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