Something that irks the crap out of me... charging more for black cars!

I

imported_Ivan Rajic

New member
I think this is the right section to post in...



I wanted to see what the rest of Autopia thinks about this, as it's something that makes me do a loud *** every other time I see it.



I see it online on detailer's websites, in magazine ads for local shops and also on signs in front of a shop when driving by...



I have thought about this for quite some time, and I still cannot understand how/why someone would charge extra simply based on the paint color. The only way I see this is a scam taking advantage of the everyday person's limited knowledge about detailing.



I know it will always show more swirls/defects than any other color, I know it's usually a PITA to correct/finish and even washing it will eventually cause swirls faster than other colors, but I can't see why someone would charge more.



Thoughts...
 
I agree...



It is akin to people saying “X” is a good one step on silver but not on black.



I think it is related to black “showing” more of the defects than a light colored car BUT, in reality just because they are more difficult to see does not mean they are not there or that they do not degrade the overall optics.



Bottom line, full correction is the same hours of labor on silver, white gold or black and should be the same charge.
 
Working black paint to the same visual perfection as lighter colors takes longer, therefore it should cost more. Where an 85% correction will look outstanding on silvers and pearls to most people, it takes 95% correction to make black look equally swirl free. Not to mention some of the PITA black paints like jet black BMWs and Infinitis. Bottom like, if it takes more time, it costs more.
 
Scottwax said:
Working black paint to the same visual perfection as lighter colors takes longer, therefore it should cost more. Where an 85% correction will look outstanding on silvers and pearls to most people, it takes 95% correction to make black look equally swirl free. Not to mention some of the PITA black paints like jet black BMWs and Infinitis. Bottom like, if it takes more time, it costs more.
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Maybe I didn't make it clear enough, although Jason understood my post...



When it says black cars cost more, the service isn't listed as "Full Paint correction" or "Show shine detail" etc. It's listed as a 1-step polishing detail and all the steps are listed below. Meaning the same exact service performed on a paint with a different color costs more for some reason.



I understand the concept of "black will take 2 steps to correct as much as blue with 1 step" but this definitely isn't it. I've even had friends who don't know much about detailing and refuse to learn go to a few of these types of places and got charged more for the same process.
 
Dunno, that's a tough one for me. If a car has super-soft, black paint I would probably charge more because perfecting it would take more time but I don't think I've had a car without ceramic paint in a couple of years. I suppose it really has nothing to do with the color, but rather with the paint itself. If a person charges more for black cars just because of the color that means they're not giving the rest of their customers the service they payed for. Therefore they are "cheating" their customers I would say.
 
Well I charge based on how many correction steps I perform. So I agree the price should be the same regardless of color as long as the same amount of work is being performed.
 
Normally I lurk and read posts but this something I will chime in on.



LUST I hear exactly what you're saying, all the steps are listed (abc) so the exact same service will be provided to a vehicle regardless of color, but although it is the same service people will charge more because it is a black car. I personally think it is a rip off.



Scottwax you wrote "Working black paint to the same visual perfection as lighter colors takes longer, therefore it should cost more. Where an 85% correction will look outstanding on silvers and pearls to most people, it takes 95% correction to make black look equally swirl free."





The problem I find with that statement is this: a black car will show any imperfection (we all agree on that on) so the detailer must correct even the slightest scratch/halogram/swirl/marring/etc...but this particular color shows the level & quality of the detailer himself. Personally I would never hire/allow a detailer to go near my car (even if it was my good friend Barry Theal) who had the mentality of "well its a silver car so I only need to do 85% worth of work to make it look good"......or....."since its black and I have to work harder I will charge him more" to me that is lazy.



Now Scottwax I will say this, maybe your statement was a reference to reality and what it does take to make a silver car look great compared to a black car and not necessarily laziness. My point is this, no matter what color vehicle...a true Detailer should alway put in 100% effort, that is what makes him a Professional. Charging more for having a black car and not getting off easy like you do a white/silver car sounds like a rip-off, why charge more...???...because you can't be lazy and get away with only 85% worth of work instead of a 100%???



(Scott that question was not directed to you personally, I was just using your numbers as example & I mean no disrespect to you because I do enjoy your write ups, but we have a difference of opinions here and thats all, nothing personal)
 
JCastro1085 said:
Normally I lurk and read posts but this something I will chime in on.



LUST I hear exactly what you're saying, all the steps are listed (abc) so the exact same service will be provided to a vehicle regardless of color, but although it is the same service people will charge more because it is a black car. I personally think it is a rip off.



Scottwax you wrote "Working black paint to the same visual perfection as lighter colors takes longer, therefore it should cost more. Where an 85% correction will look outstanding on silvers and pearls to most people, it takes 95% correction to make black look equally swirl free."





The problem I find with that statement is this: a black car will show any imperfection (we all agree on that on) so the detailer must correct even the slightest scratch/halogram/swirl/marring/etc...but this particular color shows the level & quality of the detailer himself. Personally I would never hire/allow a detailer to go near my car (even if it was my good friend Barry Theal) who had the mentality of "well its a silver car so I only need to do 85% worth of work to make it look good"......or....."since its black and I have to work harder I will charge him more" to me that is lazy.



Now Scottwax I will say this, maybe your statement was a reference to reality and what it does take to make a silver car look great compared to a black car and not necessarily laziness. My point is this, no matter what color vehicle...a true Detailer should alway put in 100% effort, that is what makes him a Professional. Charging more for having a black car and not getting off easy like you do a white/silver car sounds like a rip-off, why charge more...???...because you can't be lazy and get away with only 85% worth of work instead of a 100%???



(Scott that question was not directed to you personally, I was just using your numbers as example & I mean no disrespect to you because I do enjoy your write ups, but we have a difference of opinions here and thats all, nothing personal)
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Ill remeber that next time you need advice! lol just kidding Jason.



Correction is Correction, Steps are Steps Charge accordingly yes darker colors may seem to take longer, but if you truely correct a white car just the same as a black one, then why is it more?
 
Barry Theal said:
Ill remeber that next time you need advice! lol just kidding Jason.



Correction is Correction, Steps are Steps Charge accordingly yes darker colors may seem to take longer, but if you truely correct a white car just the same as a black one, then why is it more?
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LMFAO you know I had to bust your successful chops Barry :bow:bow:bow lol!



To be honest I actually thought of you when I replied to this post. I remember the conversations we've had on the phone and your absolutely right if you truly correct a car just the same then why is it more?
 
I think the point Ivan is trying to make (correct me if am wrong) is you have detailers out there that have packages and a price for them, but when a black car shows up, the detailer charges more and that is a scam but it is a package, nothing changes.



Here is an example of a package taken from Ivan's very own website:





Paint Restoration Detail - Recommended as initial paint correction service for all vehicles with paint in fairly poor condition with moderate defects like fading, oxidation, large amount of swirl marks, etc. Time required: 7 or more hours

Paint is pre-rinsed and delicately hand washed with a pH balanced soap

Paint is dried with proper microfiber towels

Detailing clay is used to remove any imbedded contamination

Paint cleaner is used to cleanse the paint of any prior waxes or sealants

Paint polishing process of two or more steps is employed to remove most swirl marks, light scratches and as many severe defects as safely possible to restore paint clarity, gloss and shine that in most cases rivals a brand new paint job

All exterior glass is cleaned and wiped down

Wheels are hand washed, cleansed and sealed with appropriate products

Wheel wells and tires are thoroughly cleaned and dressed

All exterior trim surfaces are cleaned and dressed

Exhaust tips and other metal surfaces are cleaned and polished

Long lasting sealant or carnauba wax is applied to exterior painted surfaces for shine and protection

Interior gets a light vacuum and wipe-down



Starts at $375



and here are his conditions:





*All listed prices reflect the starting price for each service.

*Prices will increase as the size of vehicle and the complexity of the vehicle's body panels increases.

*Estimates for all services can be given through email or over the phone based on the year, make and model of the vehilcle.

*Exact quotes will be given after the Pre-Detail Inspection, during which the condition of the paint is assessed,measurements taken and test areas polished to the client's liking.



For this example lets say this package is for $375 straight up. Now no where in his writing does it state "If your vehicle is black then the price will increase" the price will only increase by what is highlighted in red. (size, body panels, condition of the paint) but this does not reflect charging more simply because the vehicle is black.



(Ivan I used your website as a good example to prove your point, if you want me to edit/remove this, that is completely fine as I did not ask you for permission first.)
 
I think most detailers charge according to the needs of most cars. I want every car that leaves my shop to look it's best. I tell customers for darker colored cars, or cars with medium scratches and swirls we charge for a multi stage polish. If the customer demands only a shiny car we can do that but always inform the customer what the difference is.



In conclusion if you charge by the hour or by the stage of polishing you are doing a customer with a light colored car a favor by recognizing that a single step polish will make 99% of people very happy, if the customer wants it perfect charge accordingly. You are also not doing your customer a favor by only charging and performing a single stage polish on a car that needs more.



John
 
I agree with the post above but I live about 15mins away from Ivan and he is not lying when he says you see it a lot around here, especially on painted signs of front of "detailing shops" that have a 5min "get in/get out" express lane. I can't speak for the rest of the world but I do see what goes on around here (am sure it happens elsewhere too). When I see it does bother me as well because I have a black car, and you're going to tell me a detail shop will charge me more because my car is black then the guy behind me who has a white car with probably more swirls, scratches, & halograms from running it threw the car wash at the gas station? Give me a break :LOLOL





JohnKleven said:
If the customer demands only a shiny car we can do that but always inform the customer what the difference is.



John
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There you go, and that's all you need to do, I applaud you for that. A lot of shops around here just give you the old saying of "well its black so its going to cost more" story and thats not necessarily true. You can have a black car whose paint is in better condition then the average light colored vehicle rolling down the street.
 
Jason you explained my point perfectly, and I don't know if that's due to the fact you see the same stuff as I do or what. Others are all making great points that a black car does require more work to look as presentable as another color, but that's somewhat off-topic. Just to keep the confusion down, Jason's post, #10, perfectly describes what I was trying to say. The only other way I can explain it is this... if a client emails/calls me and says that he wants to do a 2-step polish on their car and wants to know the price, I ask for year, make and model, not for color.
 
I think you will find most pro's on here charge based on the car itself, and it's condition. That is the impression I get, anyway. For me it's a car by car basis, not a color by color basis.
 
John k's statement made me post...its people who one step a car with megs 105 an an orange pad and say good enough...THAT IS THE MOST OBSURED THING I EVER HEARD. It doesn't finish down close to a final Polish like some people think it does, even on whites and silvers.



Back t the topic...if the description under the "charge more for black cars" was clearly stating the reasons being more polishing steps more product more time, then its OK. But to charge more because of just the color is lame!
 
Picus I understand what you're saying. I'm not talking about giving a quote for a car and recommending a service. I'm talking about advertising a service for a certain price, then saying right under that service that it's $20 (or whatever) more for a black car. In other words, saying that a wash for a blue 1999 BMW M3 coupe will be $30 and for a black 1999 BMW M3 couple $35. That's as clear as I can explain what I was trying to say. Obviously I'm not talking about a wash, but that's the simplest example I can think of.
 
LUSTR said:
Picus I understand what you're saying. I'm not talking about giving a quote for a car and recommending a service. I'm talking about advertising a service for a certain price, then saying right under that service that it's $20 (or whatever) more for a black car. In other words, saying that a wash for a blue 1999 BMW M3 coupe will be $30 and for a black 1999 BMW M3 couple $35. That's as clear as I can explain what I was trying to say. Obviously I'm not talking about a wash, but that's the simplest example I can think of.
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Its like pulling up to a gas station car wash (I know we don't go there but stick with me) the basic wash is $5, the mid-level is $10, and the premium is $15 (standard price right?) then you have a black car pull in and wants the premium for $15 and the guy at the both says "the premium will be $20 because its a black and it takes more to clean it"



Use that analogy of "cleaning it" in reference to detailing it. I can't be any more clear, on how crystal clear am being (quote from Transformers) but that's the kind of stuff we see here at shops and it pi$$es me off, seriously!
 
toyotaguy said:
John k's statement made me post...its people who one step a car with megs 105 an an orange pad and say good enough...THAT IS THE MOST OBSURED THING I EVER HEARD. It doesn't finish down close to a final Polish like some people think it does, even on whites and silvers.
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You're absolutely right. If I do a one step, it's a finishing step like Menzerna Super Finish with a white pad, you pay more for SIP, and even more for Power Gloss. I would never finish a car with SIP, or similar.





John
 
It's too late at night for me to read all the posts in the thread, but I'm with Scott on this one, black paint generally takes longer to correct "to customer satisfaction".



In my personal experience (and my business is MUCH different than most of you Autopians), most people are happy with ~85% correction. If the odd swirl is still present, or a few RIDS, most people don't care. Every shop in my city does a 1-step, no one goes past that, ever, and as far as I know, all shops charge extra for black paintwork. Bottom line is, if a customer is happy with ~85% correction on their silver car, then so be it, they're paying the bill afterall.



I always educate my customers on what can be done and what they should expect, based on how much they want to spend. I worked on a kayak the other week that was really trashed, a new owner had purchased it used from a local boating shop. It was carbon fiber with gel coat, and was hazed like crazy. I spent 3 hours just wet sanding, then polished it out and it was still very hazy, although some parts were better. The customer's biggest concern was protecting it from further premature damage and wear, so after that, I sealed it up over and over again, and also filled all the cracks and chips with a bottle of gel seal. Personally, I was very unhappy with the job because the kayak didn't look 100%, I corrected MAYBE 60% of the defects. But the customer was thrilled, he saw a difference and he understood that it was properly protected from further pemature wear. The cost was also exactly in his price range.



Anyways, my point is, black paintwork shows defects much more than other colors, therefore, if not correcting to 100%, it takes longer. More time = higher cost.



Just for the record, I personally don't charge extra for different colored paintwork, but I do understand the rationale behind it.
 
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