Should have skipped the Flex?

Douxebris

New member
I've been eyeballing the Flex 3401 since its debut. Read everyhing here and elsewhere I could lay my eyeballs on, BUT... never saw the Flex-question posed this way, and there might be enough experience now that this thread could generate some comments...

As a PC user who moved up to the Flex 3401, are any of you thinking you should have just skipped this purchase, and instead moved straight to the rotary? Thanks for any thoughts on this.
 
I switched from the PC to the Flex and wish I would have done it sooner. I do own a rotary but never have felt very comfortable. The Flex is a HUGE time saver over the PC plus I can do in one pass on the Flex what took the PC multiple passes. So I would recommend the Flex to anybody.
 
Went to visit OctaneGuy (Richard) and he gave me a tip to skip the Flex and go to the rotary. He told me he preferred to have a rotary over the flex while keeping the PC at hand :)



Richard is a very cool guy I have to say :cool:
 
I just bought a Flex 3403 after having used my Flex 3401 fairly regularly since last September, and have no regrets whatsoever with my purchase of the 3401. I know a lot of folks skilled with the rotary that will use the 3401 to apply final polish. The 3401 was a huge transition step for me between the PC and a rotary. Now, I just have to get comfortable with the rotary.
 
If you already have a PC, go for the rotary. I have used my PC for maybe 20 hrs and then decided to buy a rotary. I absolutely love the rotary, it wasn't nearly as hard to learn as I was expecting and had no problems with burning paint. I got excellent results the first time out. If you are pretty good with a PC I'd recommend a rotary for sure.



I got the Vector 7" waxmaster for $60 at Costco.com. Worked fantastic and is plenty durable for the enthusiast detailer like me.



The flex seems excellent if you don't already own a PC, but if you already own a PC go rotary!
 
wannafbody said:
I think a rotary and PC combo can do more but the Flex is the best single compromise.



I think thats well put. Though, for the price of a flex, you can pick up a 9227 and a PC. But thats not a single compromise.
 
I agree with the compromise sentiment, but that's not my dilemma (if I didn't have the PC, the Flex purchase would indeed be a no-brainer for me). I already have the PC (and limited funds), so that compromise is off the table. Just wondering if anyone in the same pickle that joined Club Flex wishes they would have saved their money and went straight to the rotary.
 
WEll i got all 3 now pc, flex and dewalt 849. helps to have extra machines around in case you need help sometime you got a extra polisher to use or one breaks down.But i am just learning the rotary so it will be awhile before i would use one on a customers car.
 
I have the PC and Makita rotary - got them before there was any talk of the Flex. The things that keep me away from buying the Flex are price and the backing plate issue some users have had. I detail on the weekends for a few family, and friends (not for free either!) and 95% of the time I can do whatever needs to be done with a PC, if you need to do correction, get 5.5" low profile pads or 4" ones. Applying glazes, sealants and wax - 5.5" red LC is the ticket. But that's me, you have to decide what YOUR "needs" are and buy accordingly.
 
For me, it boiled down to this - if you are worried about the learning curve and risk of a rotary, but want better performance (timewise, mainly) than a PC/UDM, then a Flex is a great tool.



If the cost of the Flex is too much for you, or you are confident about mastering the tool, and you want better results/time than a PC/UDM, a rotary is the choice.



I'm a chicken with a healthy fear of burning paint/trim and a bigger-than-expected bonus. I went Flex.
 
The only advantage a rotary would have over a flex is extreme cutting power.



However with a twisted wool pad on the flex using a compound like meguiars M105 there is no paint defect that cannot be removed quickly by a flex. The extra cutting power of a rotary is simply not needed unless you are working on oxidised boats.



A rotary is out gunned in my opinion. There are soft paint jobs that are too difficult to finish with a rotary and a porter cable is needed, this is why people reccomend keeping the Porter cable as they know that Rotary cant do everything. A flex wont have any problem with these soft paint jobs.



The flex can remove heavy oxidation from hard single stage paints and can finish hologram free on the softest black paints. A rotary in the hands of your average user could never do both of those.



The only problem is a cost.



I would rather have a flex than both a rotary and Porter cable.



A detailer near me has a flex 3401 and we tried the Meguiars solo pads. They fit perfect and u have four grades of pad from heavy cutting to finishing.



Im going to be selling my metabo rotary and random orbital machine for a flex after seeing it in action. My grandma's scratched up honda has extremely soft dark green paint. Even with my average skill levels the flex was 10 times easier to finish hologram free compared to a rotary. On the rotary i would usually have to do an extra ultra fine polishing step to remove the light hologramming. So any saved time is lost IMO. I also didn't have to get the lights into position as i knew the Flex would finish hologram free every time.
 
The only advantage a rotary would have over a flex is extreme cutting power.



I disagree completely. A rotary is tool that is only limited by the user. In contrast with an oscillating machine, a rotary will break down the abrasives at a more even rate, over a uniform area, resulting in a more microscopically perfect finish.



However with a twisted wool pad on the flex using a compound like meguiars M105 there is no paint defect that cannot be removed quickly by a flex. The extra cutting power of a rotary is simply not needed unless you are working on oxidised boats.



Again I disagree completely but I will preface with my experience on the flex is limited. However, on harder paints or paints in terrible condition even a rotary at high RPM, wool pad, and aggressive compound can take a long time to remove the damaged paint. If it takes 5 or more passes of a compound and rotary I could only imagine how much longer it would take by something with far less working action.



A rotary is out gunned in my opinion. There are soft paint jobs that are too difficult to finish with a rotary and a porter cable is needed, this is why people reccomend keeping the Porter cable as they know that Rotary cant do everything. A flex wont have any problem with these soft paint jobs.



On extermely soft paint DA action machines will install micromarring because of the uneven break down of the abrasives. A rotary is required for true perfection of these finishes based because of the more even rate of abrasive fracture (when used by a skilled user). Use a DA on soft Infiniti paint then wipe it with prepsol and you quickly see the damage installed by a DA on soft paint. A rotary will break down the abrasives further then a DA as well, which creates the potenital for a better finish. I should note that I don't have the experience with the Flex, but I would assume that it finishes better then a PC as well, because of the forced rotation.



The flex can remove heavy oxidation from hard single stage paints and can finish hologram free on the softest black paints. A rotary in the hands of your average user could never do both of those.



I agree that in the hands of the average user the flex probably covers enough of a range to produce satisfactory results from most finishes. However in the hands of a skilled user, nothing will compete with a rotary.



I would rather have a flex than both a rotary and Porter cable.



I would rather have a tool that will allow me to take any finish to the highest possible level and that is a rotary. However, like you said, for the average user it may not be the best bet since it requires a lot of skill and learning experience to get maximum results.



Im going to be selling my metabo rotary and random orbital machine for a flex after seeing it in action. My grandma's scratched up honda has extremely soft dark green paint. Even with my average skill levels the flex was 10 times easier to finish hologram free compared to a rotary. On the rotary i would usually have to do an extra ultra fine polishing step to remove the light hologramming. So any saved time is lost IMO. I also didn't have to get the lights into position as i knew the Flex would finish hologram free every time.



A very interesting observation and another I agree with. A DA machine can absolutely finish down "defect" free with more agressive combinations of pads and polishes (you cannot finish a rotary hologram free with an orange pad but I have seen an orange pad finish to acceptable level's on a DA). However, the finish will never be a pure as a finish jeweled with a rotary, so it is always worth the time to (if you are going for the best possible finish) to finish with a rotary, finishing pad, and jeweling polish.
 
Speaking from four days of solid experience with my "new" Flex...



It can take several passes with Menz PowerGloss and purple foamed wool to eliminate heavy swirling in Ford and Lexus paints. Both relatively soft.



That said, compared to the PC the Flex is amazing. What a machine.



There is definitely a rotary in my future. I am thinking the Makita. That is a while over.



I will post my full review of my Flex soon. I want to work a few things out first...
 
TH0001 you are a seasoned pro. :xyxthumbs I would expect you to be able to finish hologram free with a rotary buffer. If i remember correctly you work at a fixed location with good lighting.



A highly skilled rotary user with good lighting can perform hologram free work on the softest paints. People here who buy a rotary may never reach this skill level and may hologram a lot of cars.



The average mobile guy working outside in overcast conditions will really struggle to finish hologram free on soft paint when using a rotary buffer.



The bulk of the details performed around the world are NOT $1000 4 step machine polish jobs. Most are quick single step jobs often performed by an average or below average skilled user. A flex will give better results every time in the hands of an average user when performing these average details. Sure the flex may not burnish the paint to that extra 1 percent of gloss but it will provide heavy correction while remaing hologram free. With an average user it will probably do this in shorter time as well. That means less labour and more profit for the same end result..



I should have been more clear if someone is willing to perfect the art of the rotary and aspire to only do $500+ details then a rotary would be the weapon of choice. However people have to be realistic. Myself along with the majority of detailers/hobbyists here would have never received over $300 for a car. A flex 3401 for these people is extremely attractive and should definitely be considered. In my opinion its a far better choice than a rotary.



KnuckleBuckett said:
It can take several passes with Menz PowerGloss and purple foamed wool to eliminate heavy swirling in Ford and Lexus paints. Both relatively soft.

Powergloss and a purple foamed wool are in no way the strongest combination on the market. A twisted wool pad and M105 for instance would have required only a single 10 second pass to get that level of correction.
 
Maybe I'm unique in that I am more comfortable with my rotary than with my flex. Not that I have trouble using the flex, it's just I go into rotary mode when I feel it turning at that slow speed, but then realize it's a RO.

It confuses me because I'm so used to my beastly metabo.



I love the thing, and feel it's a necessary tool, but I'll never, ever replace it for my rotary. I can finish hologram free with my Metabo rotary, but sometimes I like the tough of the PC and now the flex - just reminds me of how I learned I guess, especially the PC. Reliable, effective tool it is, definitely not extra weight by any means.



I think I've posted about this before, but I'm thinking by the end of the summer I'mm have a new RO. Still debating which one, but I've been looking at a few german machines.



powergloss and foamed wool? Heck I can practically finish with foamed wool. It's nowhere near aggressive as some other standard wool pads on the market. That's the whole point! :laugh:
 
TTWAGN said:
The only advantage a rotary would have over a flex is extreme cutting power.



However with a twisted wool pad on the flex using a compound like meguiars M105 there is no paint defect that cannot be removed quickly by a flex. The extra cutting power of a rotary is simply not needed unless you are working on oxidised boats.



A rotary is out gunned in my opinion. There are soft paint jobs that are too difficult to finish with a rotary and a porter cable is needed, this is why people reccomend keeping the Porter cable as they know that Rotary cant do everything. A flex wont have any problem with these soft paint jobs.



The flex can remove heavy oxidation from hard single stage paints and can finish hologram free on the softest black paints. A rotary in the hands of your average user could never do both of those.



The only problem is a cost.



I would rather have a flex than both a rotary and Porter cable.



A detailer near me has a flex 3401 and we tried the Meguiars solo pads. They fit perfect and u have four grades of pad from heavy cutting to finishing.



Im going to be selling my metabo rotary and random orbital machine for a flex after seeing it in action. My grandma's scratched up honda has extremely soft dark green paint. Even with my average skill levels the flex was 10 times easier to finish hologram free compared to a rotary. On the rotary i would usually have to do an extra ultra fine polishing step to remove the light hologramming. So any saved time is lost IMO. I also didn't have to get the lights into position as i knew the Flex would finish hologram free every time.



Wow, there are many things in this post that I completely disagree with, but I see Todd has already addressed most of them.
 
charlesaferg said:
Maybe I'm unique in that I am more comfortable with my rotary than with my flex. Not that I have trouble using the flex, it's just I go into rotary mode when I feel it turning at that slow speed, but then realize it's a RO.

It confuses me because I'm so used to my beastly metabo.



I love the thing, and feel it's a necessary tool, but I'll never, ever replace it for my rotary. I can finish hologram free with my Metabo rotary, but sometimes I like the tough of the PC and now the flex - just reminds me of how I learned I guess, especially the PC. Reliable, effective tool it is, definitely not extra weight by any means.



I think I've posted about this before, but I'm thinking by the end of the summer I'mm have a new RO. Still debating which one, but I've been looking at a few german machines.



powergloss and foamed wool? Heck I can practically finish with foamed wool. It's nowhere near aggressive as some other standard wool pads on the market. That's the whole point! :laugh:



*We* are unique... as in, just you and me, charlesaferg. ;) I feel the same way. I'm definitely more at home with the rotary than a DA. Heck, I use the rotary and a white finishing wool to put Desitin on my daughter's bum. No swirls or holograms yet, and she hasn't complained, so I must be doing *something* right.
 
How long before the Desitin flashes over? :nixweiss





SuperBee364 said:
*We* are unique... as in, just you and me, charlesaferg. ;) I feel the same way. I'm definitely more at home with the rotary than a DA. Heck, I use the rotary and a white finishing wool to put Desitin on my daughter's bum. No swirls or holograms yet, and she hasn't complained, so I must be doing *something* right.
 
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