sedan hp wars & high gas prices??

G

gnahc79

New member
What's the deal with the hp wars among the sedans? 250+ hp for the V6 Camry? Does my 60 yr old father REALLY need to get to the grocery store that fast? I'm kind of confused...high gas prices, more hybrids being sold, the Yaris & Fit...ok, makes sense. But the Hyundai Azera with a 3.8L V6? Someone explain this to me :confused: .
 
Here is my take on it...owning a 2004 4-Runner with a the V8. There are a ton of SUV's and vehicles out there with bigger motors in them. You mentioned the Camary. Why not have that horsepower if they are still getting around 34mpg? They do offer them with a 4 cylinder but why advertise that, its boring. People want a car that gets good gas milage then they drive one and it sucks...they cant get out of their own way. As far as the SUV's...my dad owns a Ford Escape with a 6 cyl. It is horrible on gas!! He hates it. My V8 gets as good if not better milage than his truck. I think part of the problem is that an underpowered motor has to use more effort to move a larger vehicle. The V6 in the 4-Runners only gets few more mpg than the V8. In my opinion its because the V6 has to work that much harder to move the same vehicle weight. Someone correct me if I am wrong but that is my $.02!! :usa
 
If the market demands it the car companies will produce it. Everyone talks about gas prices then runs out and buys 268hp Camrys, 270hp Maximas, 306hp Lexus, etc..etc.. BMW is releasing a 300hp twin turbo 3 series this fall for pete sake. I guess what I am saying is the gas price whining is overstated, and that people are buying more and more powerful cars, so the hp wars are not going to stop.



Yes, more powerful engines are becoming more efficient with direct injection and other technology, but if I am not mistaken average gas mileage amongst 6cyl cars has been on a downward trend. I know my car gets ~14/18 on a good day.



Cheers.
 
Well your right, but I also think the technology is having an effect as well. You can get 300 hp from a V6 and still get in the 30mpg range. No matter how high the prices get people will pay. We will still (me included) drive our big SUV's and pickup trucks and enjoy them. Turbos and superchargers are the way to go. You can have a 4 cyl. and still push 300hp...the best of both worlds. I think you are going to start seeing a lot of manufactures with forced induction on small motors.
 
IMHO it's a waste to put more than around 250-300 hp in a chassis designed to float rather than sting. 400 and even 500 horsepower is hitting the streets. That's entertaining but not really what driving is all about. With $3 gas, that's a choice each person must make.
 
Having hardly any hp is not fun or your car is too low geared, who wants a bunch of people behind you because you don't have hp to get up the hill or you can only cruse at top speed of 60 mph on the freeway. Sample: Riding a mule or a cutting horse which one would you rather ride?

There is different kinds of power car makers design there cars or trucks, like Ford they are known for torque, Chev’s there hp, Toyo’s there low gear ness, Honda there good engineering & design.

On old people always give them room but its kind of the pits when a old person is driving slow and there is 50 cars behind them and you have a hot date in 10 min’s happens every time grrrr. Or how about Toyo trucks going down the freeway there cursing speed is about 60 mph and the speed limit is 70 and they always are passing a simi truck when you are cursing at 75 so it takes for ever to wait for them. But they think they are going fast because there engine are raving high because they are low geared.
 
Not everyone cares about the gas prices to be honest. Some people just have the money and could care less. You really notice this on the water here in Michigan. Still tons of boaters on the lake and gas is over $4.00 a gallon on the water.
 
Interesting points :). IMO the manufacturers are pushing the higher hp sedans to increase sales. More horsepower sells cars easier I guess.

I think it's better to get a lighter vehicle (e.g. Miata) that can go fast AND actually negotiate a turn. I can't afford such an 'impractical' option so I'll opt for a 300 lb motorcycle that goes from 0-60 in 'oh crap' and gets 35mpg city+hwy :).

Hm, I guess that's the selling point. Get a car can do everything (not well, though), go fast, decent gas mileage, able to go to Costco, and still get the ok from the wife, lol.
 
In 1990, my MIL quit driving. I took over her '81 Buick LeSabre. That was when the LeSabre was still big and RWD. It had a V-6 rated at only 125 HP. Yet that car would haul. The speedometer would only register to 85. On interstate trips, I commonly had the needle pegged. Admittedly, 0-60 times weren't fantastic, but still I never worried when I lived in Houston and had to get on the interstate.



Now, my sedan has 275 HP. It certainly is faster than the old Buick, but that Buick served me well.
 
The mindset in this country and the engineering being done by auto manufacturers are running completely in reverse of the reality of petroleum in this day and age. If anyone with half a brain stopped to think about world affairs and what gas prices could EASILY skyrocket to in this country I think it is safe to say they would NOT treasure their 400+ horsepower sedans, or giant gas guzzling SUVs. What amazes me is how dismissive people are of these truths.
 
Is the HP necessary? No.

Does it help sell cars? Yes.



Who's to blame? I think ultimately the government. If they instituted higher emissions standards and gas mileage for autos and actually regulated what SUVs spit out, this HP war wouldn't be so prominent. At the moment, the government's raising these standards at a snail's pace, totally at the whim of the industry. Therefore, auto makers are able to produce these high output engines. It's a major selling point and the public wants it. People will always want more HP, it's inevitable. Auto makers will always push the limits to maximize what they can. It drives innovation. With gas prices so high with seemingly no end in sight for when it'll ease up, you'd think the government would step in and push forward legislation boosting gas mileage and emissions standards...but nope.



Don't get me wrong, I LOVE HP a the ability to haul ***, I do so daily in my Rex, but am I willing to give some of it up to better the environment and lessen our usage of fossil fuels, damn straight I am!
 
FujiFast said:
Is the HP necessary? No.

Does it help sell cars? Yes.



Who's to blame? I think ultimately the government. If they instituted higher emissions standards and gas mileage for autos and actually regulated what SUVs spit out, this HP war wouldn't be so prominent. At the moment, the government's raising these standards at a snail's pace, totally at the whim of the industry. Therefore, auto makers are able to produce these high output engines. It's a major selling point and the public wants it. People will always want more HP, it's inevitable. Auto makers will always push the limits to maximize what they can. It drives innovation. With gas prices so high with seemingly no end in sight for when it'll ease up, you'd think the government would step in and push forward legislation boosting gas mileage and emissions standards...but nope.



Don't get me wrong, I LOVE HP a the ability to haul ***, I do so daily in my Rex, but am I willing to give some of it up to better the environment and lessen our usage of fossil fuels, damn straight I am!
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Kudos! :2thumbs:
 
Who is to blame? It's consumers. If people didn't buy these cars manufacturers wouldn't make them, period. The government shouldn't have to spoon-feed people and tell them that high hp vehicles in general use more gas and have higher emissions. If you want to help the environment that's your call, but right now clearly the buying public is more interested in going fast. Not saying I agree, I'm just not a big fan of the government telling people what to do.



I mean really, if Americans/Canadians were that concerned with mpg we would have more deisels. The fact that we don't is indicative of our unwillingness to compromise on power.
 
It's a tough call with how much government should be involved. Consumers usually don't worry about large scale implications like gasoline supply. Who cares if my gas bill goes up $10/month from driving a 3.8L V6? Then again I'm not so sure it's a good idea to let the market just do its own thing and potentially further deplete the gasoline supply at a greater rate.

We already have emissions regulations, which is a good thing IMO, they're just not pursing it aggressively enough.
 
Picus said:
Who is to blame? It's consumers. If people didn't buy these cars manufacturers wouldn't make them, period. The government shouldn't have to spoon-feed people and tell them that high hp vehicles in general use more gas and have higher emissions. If you want to help the environment that's your call, but right now clearly the buying public is more interested in going fast. Not saying I agree, I'm just not a big fan of the government telling people what to do.



I mean really, if Americans/Canadians were that concerned with mpg we would have more deisels. The fact that we don't is indicative of our unwillingness to compromise on power.
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P - you have a point, and I agree to some degree. Consumers want more. They ALWAYS want more. It's an American past time heh! But the government needs to play big brother a bit in this space. Look at the recent hit we Autopians took with respect to VOC regulations. Some of our favorite products were discontinued for the betterment of the environment...#16, Paste Glaz, etc...RIP. But newer products came out and have captured the fandom of these nixed products. Consumers still want more and still want better, and they're still getting it, just in an environmentally friendlier product. Of course this isn't an apples to apples comparison, but you get my drift.



The US government at the moment(I can't speak for your Canadian Parliament) is too heavily influenced by big business, including the auto industry. There's no question the progress of raising regulations have been stifled by them. If it were up to the auto industry, consumers would get everything they wanted, which is a bad thing...imagine everyone running catless? Ok, that's a bit extreme heh! Government is supposed to look after the interest of the nation and keep us from self-destruction. The current trend is favoring self-destruction in my opinion. Sure blame the consumers, but whose fault is it when you see a rampant spoiled child? The kid's or the parent's?



Hey, I'm not a fan of big government either, but some things need to be parented more than others. And, at present, the US government seems to be out of touch and out of focus with the needs of the nation.
 
Picus said:
Who is to blame? It's consumers. If people didn't buy these cars manufacturers wouldn't make them, period. The government shouldn't have to spoon-feed people and tell them that high hp vehicles in general use more gas and have higher emissions. If you want to help the environment that's your call, but right now clearly the buying public is more interested in going fast. Not saying I agree, I'm just not a big fan of the government telling people what to do.



I mean really, if Americans/Canadians were that concerned with mpg we would have more deisels. The fact that we don't is indicative of our unwillingness to compromise on power.
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Sure, the consumers are to blame. HOWEVER, only in the USA will you find this kind of mindset. We are the fattest, most gluttonous country on the earth. We have it better than 99.9 percent of the rest of the world, even those of us that are the worst off in this country. The sad fact is Americans tend to forget that they aren't the only people on the planet, and that not everyone needs to live the way we do.



This small debate about cars points to a larger problem in this country. It is going to take something big to create the paradigm shift that we need. If we were to wake up tomorrow and Iran decided F the USA, and North Korea could launch a functional long range missile and didn't think we were worth talking to anymore, where do you think this country would be? There'd be a hell of a lot more of us car pooling.
 
I absolutely see your point. Being Canadian I've been raised in a near socialist country; while it's the same as the U.S in many ways the government definitely plays a larger role in the automobile industry here. I was playing devils advocate to some extent, but I do honestly believe that we haven't reached a point where the government needs to interfere with the automobile industry *to a large extent*. I do think it's wise of them to promote low emissions standards (and create laws that enforce them), and I think it's smart of them to offer incentives based on mpg - I'm also not opposed at all to more consumption taxes (pay to play), but I don't think it's quite time to force certain mileage ratings to be met. The government is elected by the people, and right now the people are clearly for more power at the expense of some mpg.
 
I agree with some of what you said, but I think that it is PAST time for the government to mandate higher fuel economy. The fact is that the technology to do it is here NOW, and just isn't being used. The only question for that is: Why not? No politician in this country will give you a straight answer on that topic. This country allows too much influence via campaign contributions and such for these people to bite the hand that feeds them. CAFEs should be much higher across the board than they currently are. It's really just stupidity in action that what's allowed has been allowed for so long.
 
i love being able to go fast but just feel sick every time i hit the pumps, so i went from a V8 to a supercharged V6, better gas milege and more power. I couldn't be happier.



Small dispancement + forced induction = the way to go



With turbo diesels winning LeMans, i feel we're in for power and economy once people start demanding it. And as much as it pains me to say it, detroit is way behind the times and about to fall further.
 
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