Sealants bonding when layered?

C

CharlesW

The Rainmaker
Just some things that popped up in my mind.

1. A sealant chemically bonds to the paint. (So they say)
2. Sealants can and are layered. Some times as many as 10 to 50 layers. (Not me!)
3. How does layer #2 bond to the paint? The paint already has that first layer bonded to it. If the sealant is truly sealing and protecting the paint surface, layer #2 shouldn't be able to penetrate layer #1 to get to the paint to bond.
4. Is there really any value in all this layering of sealants?
5. This pertains to any of several sealants, maybe all of them.

My original 2 applications are actually to assure good coverage for any of the places I probably missed.
Do my monthly maintenance applications just lay on the previous sealer that remains bonded to the paint?

My question is not directed to any particular brand. I happen to be another of those that has often been caught up in the hype about a product and have managed to use several different sealants as well as a few waxes.:)

Charles
 
I am not sure that most of the sealants that I have used do much after the first two layers. I do two layers the same as you Charles. To get a completely cover vehicle.

The one product that I do more layers than two has a curing agent that helps the process of curing the sealant. These are my thoughts. In this case they are worth what they cost. It is just my opinion.

With a curing agent in the mix this agent permeates the first layer and each layer there after up to three in one day. Then one layer can be applied each day with the curing agent still activating the new layer. Bonding the layer to the layer below. Up to ten layers without adding a new bonding agent. So in my opinion the first layer is locked onto the paint. The curing agent locks the second, third or tenth layer. Making it a sealant to be reckoned with.
 
cwcad said:
I am not sure that most of the sealants that I have used do much after the first two layers. I do two layers the same as you Charles. To get a completely cover vehicle.

The one product that I do more layers than two has a curing agent that helps the process of curing the sealant. These are my thoughts. In this case they are worth what they cost. It is just my opinion.

With a curing agent in the mix this agent permeates the first layer and each layer there after up to three in one day. Then one layer can be applied each day with the curing agent still activating the new layer. Bonding the layer to the layer below. Up to ten layers without adding a new bonding agent. So in my opinion the first layer is locked onto the paint. The curing agent locks the second, third or tenth layer. Making it a sealant to be reckoned with.
Click to expand...
Interesting. So with Zaino, the ZFX would perform that function, right? Do you use the ZFX each time you apply another layer of Zaino?

Maybe I should be using the Duragloss PBA (Polish Bonding Agent) whenever I apply more #105. I was wondering how I was ever going to use up all that PBA.:)

Charles
 
Yes, ZFX is the curing agent that permeates the sealant applied. If you use ZFX on the intial layer it is not needed again until 10 layers have been applied. Then either another application of ZFX'd Zaino polish(sealant)Z2Pro or Z5Pro or....one can can also purchase Z1 Polish lock. This does the same thing as ZFX but limits you to one layer every twenty four hours. Z1 Polish lock it to be applied and let to dry to a haze. A Zaino Polish(sealant)is applied over the Z1 and left to dry to a haze.
After the Zaino Polish(sealant) has hazed you would then wipe off the two products off at the same time. But ten layers is the limit before one needs to add more curing agent(ZFX or Z1).
 
cwcad said:
But ten layers is the limit before one needs to add more curing agent(ZFX or Z1).
Click to expand...
If you only use the ZFX or Z1 with the first layer, (or two), what causes the layers from 1 or 2 to bond? Does the ZFX continue to migrate to the surface and cause each successive application to bond? That seems like it would be a stretch. I'm not quite sure I understand just how the initial application with ZFX can continue to work over a period of months.
In my case, it would never be a concern since 10 layers would never happen.
Two layers intially for good coverage and another layer each month and at the 6 layer, (also 6 months), mark, I would be starting over anyway. My only experience with Zaino was prior to the ZFX and I didn't have to mix anything. At the time, I didn't feel it was anything special when compared to Liquid Glass, Finish First or one I think was called Liquid Crystal. After my initial fling with sealants I went back to Meguiar's Medallion Premium Paint Protection until 2002 when I first tried UPP with Klasse AIO for a base/prep. In 2002, I found UPP and have kind of been drawn back into the sealant thing.
At one time, I had three cars in the garage with three different products and I don't think you could have told me which vehicle had which product. The one thing all 3 had in common was Klasse AIO for the cleaner/polish prep after Meg's #9 SMR. The 3 products were S100, UPP, Meg's Medallion PPP. It kind of made me think the Klasse AIO was somewhat responsible for the results and I still use it for a cleaner/polish.

Charles
 
Remember that paint isn't totally smooth or flat-it's somewhat porous. More applications help fill and seal the paint. Z2p or Z5p will bond to previous layer of Zaino or bare paint-but the bond isn't as good and the crosslinking isn't as tight as when ZFX is used. Z2p is fairly durable on it's own but I've found it works better with ZFX. Sal has continued to tweak the products and they last longer and are more user friendly than in the past.
 
I talked to Duragloss about this layering thing and they told me anything more than two coats was a waste of product and my time.
I think once you have the surface evenly covered their is no added protection from additional coats. With proper prep the surface would be smooth and it would not be necessary to put 5 or 10 coats on for protection.
 
I agree whole heartedly that it is not necessary to layer more than two layers.

In my case it is the look that I keep trying to find that gets me to layer more than two layers and this is done in weeks rather than days. After a week I may wash with Z7 then follow up with a layer of Z5Pro. A few days later I may use Z6 to QD the vehicle and follow with a ler of Z5Pro again. Each time that I layer with Z5Pro I get a little more filling of the marring that may or may not have been introduced thru my washing or
QD'ing techniques. I almost alwyas add a layer of Z8 spray sealant after all of these applications. Is it necessary...No.... but the look and the slickness plus adding protection makes it worth it to me.

I may not have the best looking truck in town but I have my truck looking the best that I can.....All of the time!!
 
CharlesW said:
If you only use the ZFX or Z1 with the first layer, (or two), what causes the layers from 1 or 2 to bond? Does the ZFX continue to migrate to the surface and cause each successive application to bond? That seems like it would be a stretch. I'm not quite sure I understand just how the initial application with ZFX can continue to work over a period of months.
In my case, it would never be a concern since 10 layers would never happen.
Two layers intially for good coverage and another layer each month and at the 6 layer, (also 6 months), mark, I would be starting over anyway. My only experience with Zaino was prior to the ZFX and I didn't have to mix anything. At the time, I didn't feel it was anything special when compared to Liquid Glass, Finish First or one I think was called Liquid Crystal. After my initial fling with sealants I went back to Meguiar's Medallion Premium Paint Protection until 2002 when I first tried UPP with Klasse AIO for a base/prep. In 2002, I found UPP and have kind of been drawn back into the sealant thing.
At one time, I had three cars in the garage with three different products and I don't think you could have told me which vehicle had which product. The one thing all 3 had in common was Klasse AIO for the cleaner/polish prep after Meg's #9 SMR. The 3 products were S100, UPP, Meg's Medallion PPP. It kind of made me think the Klasse AIO was somewhat responsible for the results and I still use it for a cleaner/polish.

Charles
Click to expand...

It certainly may be a stretch to believe wether or not the ZFX keeps working after the first or second layer. I guess that I am guilty of falling for the hype. I do like the look. I do like the system. Have done what the directions say to do. Experiencing, what I consider, good results.

Having seen your vehicle first hand I tend to believe that no matter what product that YOU use Charles you will have stellar results. I was ( and still am) proud of how my truck looked the day that we visited in the parking lot with that red car of yours. In all honesty my truck's condition paled when looking at yours. I was more than impressed to say the least.

One thing that I have noticed between the two cars that I own is that the wife's car is in my better condition than mine. Her car is parked inside everyday and every night. Where as mine is outside 24/7. Her slickness paint condition, and shine do not need to be maintained nearly as much as mine does. That and the fact that it is a lighter color.

When I was testing Carnuabas on the hood of my truck I could feel the embedded dirt on the paint. The paint did not feel the same as it did on the Tonneau cover which had a sealant. It might be becasue the hood gets added heat from the engine that makes the difference in how it feels.
 
Kirk:
The most important thing is your satisfaction with the product performance. All the hype won't change the results.

Your truck always looks good.:) The day we met, you had been on the road for a week, the GTP had been on the road for a few miles. Advantage: GTP.

Just a few comments related to your post.

1. Following directions.
If people would do this more often, IMO, they would have better results.

2. Using a system.
Not a bad idea at all. My only real deviation from a system is usually my use of Klasse AIO. Whether it be Meguiar's, 4 Star, Duragloss, S100, I try to use the products they recommend in the way they recommend using them.

3. Conditions.
Being exposed to the elements 24/7 dfinitely takes its toll. All three of our vehicles are garaged when not in use. Just being out of the sun during the day is a big help, let alone all the other contaminants that many people have to contend with. Just the dust from nearby construction coupled with a little moisture can reek havoc with a finish in very short order. Having to contend with the industrial fallout in large metropolitan areas would be a nightmare.
Even our water is such that water spots are really not a concern. Any drips or spots remove with very little effort. Usually either S&W or a QD is all that is needed. Rarely will I even need the Klasse AIO.

As an aside: There's so many good products out there, that the constant bickering seems ridiculous to me.
If someone is happy with what they use, great, use it often. I think Mike Phillips said something like that, but he said it much better.:)

Charles
 
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