Sealant/AIO before Carnauba
- Thread starter wfedwar
- Start date
stiffdogg06
New member
I could see applying a sealant to get protection and then a wax to get more looks that the sealant can't provide to have both worlds. Quality protection and some descent looks.
I don't do it personally because summer time, i dont care for protection so its wax. And then winter, there is no one to impress so its 476/845 even though they do provide descent looks for a durablity wax.
Sorry for the lack of scientific information my post lacked. Just posting what I "think.":2thumbs:
I don't do it personally because summer time, i dont care for protection so its wax. And then winter, there is no one to impress so its 476/845 even though they do provide descent looks for a durablity wax.
Sorry for the lack of scientific information my post lacked. Just posting what I "think.":2thumbs:
Cleaning Fool
New member
Remember Klasse AIO topped with your favorite wax was a holy grail combo here years ago.
Dan
Well-known member
I still love megs #66 topped with 845. Done once every six months keeps a car looking great with only two steps.
Accumulator
Well-known member
wfedwar said:
Sorta smart-@$$ed, cynical reply: Other detailers tout it so they sound oh-so-impressive and vendors advertise it so customers buy both wax and sealant.
(The preceding was *NOT* intended as a slam at anybody in particular.)
If you want to get any durability benefit from using a sealant under your wax, you'd better layer that sealant heavily. Between the possible solvent-action from the wax application, and the issue of "dead wax artifacts" that will probably need to be clayed off the sealant when the wax is dead, the underlying product is gonna have a tough time of it.
I did many layers of KSG on the MPV. Topped it with #16 and yeah, it looked a *LITTLE* bit nicer. Not enough so that anybody would know, but hey, it's a silver minivan. When the wax died I gently clayed it with Sonus green and the KSG was still OK, so I coulda retopped it (but I didn't bother). *MAYBE* it woulda been worth doing on another color :nixweiss But I wasn't impressed enough to ever top a sealant again; if nothing else I'd rather be able to add more sealant from time to time. And if I want the look of a wax, I just use a wax by itself and redo it before it really needs doing. Not like the underlying sealant really accomplishes much IME as long as you don't let the wax deteriorate too much.
Cleaning Fool said:
Well, guess I was always heretical towards *that* one too
It's not like AIO leaves anything appreciable behind so I dunno if it's really a good example of a sealant when it comes to getting topped with a carnauba :think:Used like that, the AIO is sorta like a combo paint cleaner and bright glaze, only with no filling ability.
I know I am new to the detailing world, but having read numerous postings and forum threads on this subject and others (layering, wax and sealant bonding, etc.), I have marked the strong emphatic claims that are often made in forums without providing scientific documentation and empirical evidence. It's as if everyone has a Ph.D. in chemistry. Hence I am quite sympathetic to Accumulator's comment above. It seems to me that everyone should adopt a hermeneutic of suspicion when they encounter scientific claims asserted with great authority. We need to ask questions like:
Who are you? Do you have an advanced degree in chemistry?
Who are your authorities? On whom are you relying? What are their credentials?
Can you provide experimental data, data that a trained scientist would find acceptable and persuasive, to support your claims?
In the absence of authentic scientific authority and evidence, all we really have is anecdotal testimony. Anecdotal testimony is not nothing, but it is one of the weakest forms of evidence. It doesn't amount to much more than opinion, and as jazz drummer Art Blakey amusingly remarked, "Opinions are like assholes--everyone's got one."
When reading the internet, a healthy dose of skepticism is in order. Anyone can make himself appear as an expert. All one needs to do is to acquire a facility with scientific jargon and to assert one's views with categorical authority. I am not, of course, suggesting that anyone here on Autopia is guilty of this. I simply note the presence on the internet of pseudo-scientists and counterfeit-experts.
Ernest Hemingway was once asked if there was one quality, above all others, that was needed to be a good writer. He replied, "Yes, a built-in, shock-proof, crap detector." That's what we all need, a way to distinguish authentic knowledge-claims from all the BS. If you've lived in the internet as long as I have, you know exactly what I mean.
Al
Who are you? Do you have an advanced degree in chemistry?
Who are your authorities? On whom are you relying? What are their credentials?
Can you provide experimental data, data that a trained scientist would find acceptable and persuasive, to support your claims?
In the absence of authentic scientific authority and evidence, all we really have is anecdotal testimony. Anecdotal testimony is not nothing, but it is one of the weakest forms of evidence. It doesn't amount to much more than opinion, and as jazz drummer Art Blakey amusingly remarked, "Opinions are like assholes--everyone's got one."
When reading the internet, a healthy dose of skepticism is in order. Anyone can make himself appear as an expert. All one needs to do is to acquire a facility with scientific jargon and to assert one's views with categorical authority. I am not, of course, suggesting that anyone here on Autopia is guilty of this. I simply note the presence on the internet of pseudo-scientists and counterfeit-experts.
Ernest Hemingway was once asked if there was one quality, above all others, that was needed to be a good writer. He replied, "Yes, a built-in, shock-proof, crap detector." That's what we all need, a way to distinguish authentic knowledge-claims from all the BS. If you've lived in the internet as long as I have, you know exactly what I mean.
Al
imported_MCA
New member
You can count me as a detailer who use to apply a beauty wax over a beauty sealant - In my case, it was Wolfgang Sealant topped with Souveran. I later came to the conclusion that WG (and probably a lot of other sealants) looked great on its own hence don't need to be topped by a wax...YMMV of course
Klasse AIO is still in my regiment only for its cleaning properties - it goes under any first time / first layer LSP just to ensure a decent paint surface. In short, paint prep is what is most important in this scenario.
Klasse AIO is still in my regiment only for its cleaning properties - it goes under any first time / first layer LSP just to ensure a decent paint surface. In short, paint prep is what is most important in this scenario.
Cleaning Fool
New member
In my tests, if I apply a sealant like Zaino/Blackfire etc, I really see little to no difference if you put a wax on top. Now, a month after I have applied the sealant and then top it, I can see a difference for sure. If Im using a finishing polish, I don't use a "cleaner" type product as well. It just seems redundant to me and not necessary.
Accumulator
Well-known member
akimel said:
I'll often grant certain claims a bit more credibility than that...depending on who posted it and how it jibes with my previous experience. I'll differentiate between opinion and (claimed) experience.
I'd say that certain arguments can be so inductively compelling that I'll either withhold judgment, or reference them with the appropriate caveats/disclaimers, or try them for myself. But once I've tried something (to the extent that I'm confident that my experience is representative), then my first-hand observations take precedence.
Sometimes experiences just differ, and there are often a whole lotta variables that can explain that, or at least muddy the waters enough that I simply :nixweiss So sometimes we have to agree to disagree.
I understand if somebody blows me off; hey, I'm just a semi-anonymous poster on an internet forum. But when people imply, or straight-out insist, that I'm *wrong* about my first-hand experiences, that I shouldn't believe my own eyes, well then I can be sorta :argue
And regarding layering, IMO it's pretty simple:
Appearance: do you see a difference? That's that, believe your own eyes.
Bonding: when products don't bond you usually get a smeary mess, like you're wiping product #2 off of product #1. IME it's always pretty obvious that something's wrong.
Solvent-action on underlying products: can you discern a problem (or other change) of any kind? If so, reconsider what you did. If not, I wouldn't worry about it, do what you like doing.
Durability: do one coat on the entire panel. Add multiple coats to half of the panel. Add one more coat to the entire panel (to equalize the start-time for the observation period). See if there's a significant difference in [whatever criteria you value] between the two halves over a period of time.
Accumulator
Well-known member
wfedwar said:
I agree with CleaningFool for the most part. I don't worry about cleaning a panel after finish polishing unless a) I'm worried about concealing or b) I want to ensure a proper base for my LSP (e.g., I always do KAIO before KSG, but I dunno if it's really necessary and in fact I kinda doubt it).