Scratches in paint

L

larrendeuce

New member
I would like to know what most of you use for getting scratches/swirls out of paint. I recently started using a rotary at the shop I work at and I think better results could be achieved. Most of our work is centered on off lease cars being reconditioned for sale. My boss demands top quality work on all cars but we get our money from volume. Basically I can't spend all day detailing a car, but I would like to get better and faster results then I already do. On the bad cars I use a wool cutting pad at 1000 rpm with ardex cut white. Then I switch to ardex diamond crystal four polish with a blue soft polish pad at 1800 rpm. To finish I use a finishing pad with Ardex Stereo Glaze # 2, and flint glaze wax. The swirls are gone, and the car has a deep high shine. However I still see scratches in the paint that I cannot catch my fingernail in. Wet sanding is not an option, after we detail the cars they are sent to a body shop for dent removal, painting, etc. I just want to be the best I can be. :)
 
larrendeuce said:
<snip> Wet sanding is not an option, after we detail the cars they are sent to a body shop for dent removal, painting, etc. I just want to be the best I can be. :)
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That seems kinda backwards to me. Wouldn't they go to the bodyshop first and then be detailed?? :dunno
 
for painteless dent repair it makes sense, the guy that has done pdr for me says its great to do my car because of the shine and reflectivity it makes it easier to see if they have the dent out but the paint thing seems backwards to me as well
 
It would be more effecient all around to wash the car ... send to body shop ... bring it back and clean all the dust, paint overspray off and then buff the paint. It might take you just as long but at least you are not doing a car twice.
Just my .02
 
The cars get sent to us, whatever we can't fix gets sent to the painters, they do the wheels, bumpers, interior. Anything else gets sent to the body shop. After that they get sent to service, then to their in house detailing department for a freshen up. Then to the sale line.
 
I don't think anything removes swirls, it just fills them in temporarily until the car is washed a few times. You can't remove them, they are very small scratches in the paint and all you can do is use the finest grit compound there is so they aren't as noticeable then glaze. Synthetic compound is BS, on clearcoat it's just going to remove dirt and dead paint, it is impossible for it to cut into clearcoat with no grit, it won't remove swirls either. Just use the finest grit light compound, flatten out the pad, buff with little pressure, and don't buff in 20 directions or the swirls will show even worse. I know if you're buffing a hood try to go from the front all the way to the back 'cause if you stop in the middle the swirls will be worse.
 
I like the Ardex Cut White but it has a little more grit than some other light compounds so it leaves worse swirls. Ardex makes a lighter compound, I think it's 1500 finishing compound, kind of dries up on me though.
 
Yeah my boss supplies the shop with ardex 1500 plus for use as cut white. To help the drying problem when applying to the surface we add some diamond crystal four to keep it wet. I have had some more practice, and I can now produce swirl free finishes. I've also found I can get away with just using the 1500 plus on lighter colors, silver, gold, white, etc. and no swirls show. The darker colors still need a soft polishing pad. Black cars still get the three pad process. I'll use the digital camera I get my girlfriend for christmas to post some pictures of our work. :lol

For those interested in ardex products www.ardexlabs.com
 
larrendeuce,
How long does it take you detail a car using the three or four step process?
What other products line have you tried?
Will your boss allow you to use other products in the shop, besides what he provides?
How are are you paid? Hourly? Commission? Fixed rate per vehicle?
How bad are the vehicles before you start working on them? Sometimes a finish can not be fixed without a sanding or trip to the paint booth.

Eric
 
The place I work for wants me to charge one price but when I start getting a bunch of 3 step buffs I charge more. That's alot of time and hassle to do it right and it makes a mess, I can feel the grit in my teeth when i'm done, lol.

A well used, damp with product buffing pad will make the swirls much worse. I think it's just 'cause the fibers stick together when they get wet therefore making one bigger fiber and a bigger cut.
 
I've been using Buff Lite II from Malco and really like it but they started charging around $6 more per gallon than the competition. Just in time though, my boss decided to pay for all the chemicals and just pay me $5 less per car so I don't care how much it cost now, lol. It'll be like Christmas day Monday, i'm loading up.
 
edschwab1 said:
larrendeuce,
How long does it take you detail a car using the three or four step process?
What other products line have you tried?
Will your boss allow you to use other products in the shop, besides what he provides?
How are are you paid? Hourly? Commission? Fixed rate per vehicle?
How bad are the vehicles before you start working on them? Sometimes a finish can not be fixed without a sanding or trip to the paint booth.

Eric
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We get lease returns so most of the cars we get are destroyed. The longest I've taken so far was 4 days to do a Ram 2500 pickup. The average is a day or 2. On occasion we get cars that look brand new and it only takes 20 minutes to give it a wash, wax, and vacuum. I detailed out of my house for 2 years previous to working at this shop. I used mothers and meguiars products along with some others that I experimented with. I make a cirtain rate for doing full interior, wash and wax. Then another for buffing the car. Combined it pays as a full detail, each step is half. The rate is fixed as is what he gets to charge the dealer per the contract. My boss wants to make me a shop manager so he can still have the place open while he takes some time off. Hopefully I'll run into some money with it. In the meantime I'll be a starving artist. :doh When we are finished with a car it gets looked over for whatever else it might need, paint, body work, interior dying, service, etc.
 
swirls said:
I don't think anything removes swirls, it just fills them in temporarily until the car is washed a few times. You can't remove them, they are very small scratches in the paint and all you can do is use the finest grit compound there is so they aren't as noticeable then glaze. Synthetic compound is BS, on clearcoat it's just going to remove dirt and dead paint, it is impossible for it to cut into clearcoat with no grit, it won't remove swirls either. Just use the finest grit light compound, flatten out the pad, buff with little pressure, and don't buff in 20 directions or the swirls will show even worse. I know if you're buffing a hood try to go from the front all the way to the back 'cause if you stop in the middle the swirls will be worse.
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I can remove them dude. Paint can be polished and imperfections removed. Don't give up. You will get the hang of it.
 
I've been doing it for 15 yrs. I can make paint look perfect, but no matter what, if you compound a car it's going to have swirls. You can only hide them with fillers and glazes. Take a car you compounded and waxed and wash it with a strong all purpose cleaner twice, dry it, then park it in the sun. You'll see swirls. I can minimize them so they're not all over the place and not real noticeable but they're still their. A car that's been heavy compounded will never look as good as new with out a polish/glaze/or wax hiding the dullness and swirls. Experiment once, when you're done with a car that you heavy compounded wash the hell out of it with a strong detergent soap to get the polish off of it then take it outside to look at it. Lmk. :)
 
It'll look sweet when i'm done but after the wax where's off the swirls will show, not horribly, but they're there.
 
That's why your name is swirls. I can compound a car and then polish out and finesse the paint to mirror-like perfection without covering the imperfections up with glazes and fillers.

Stick around, you might just learn a few tricks to make you a better detailer. No need to cover up swirls when you can remove them.

I have a feeling that you just need to be introduced to a Porter Cable polisher, foam pads and some Menzerna.
 
I was under the impression that swirls can be removed. It's true that compounding may induce marring, it will be removed when you polish. A simple way to tell if they have just been filled is by spraying the area with a 50/50 mix of alcohol and water. I'm confident that swirls can be removed, however, just basic washing over time will induce new ones.
 
Swirls can be removed. I remove them all the time. You may not be able to remove marring after heavy compounding with the same machine and product that you used to create the marring in the first place, but stepping down your products and your tools can perfect the finish. Remember, the definition to 'insanity' is doing the same thing in the same way over and over and then expecting different results. If you aren't able to remove swirls using your current process, then perhaps its time to explore other options. Just a thought...
 
1.Heavy compound(red) if needed. Wool pad just for heavy
2.Light Compound(white)Ardex 1500 or Malco Buff Light II. Wool Pad just for light
3.Swirl Remover with Foam Pad
4.Either Glaze or wipe swirl remover with micro fiber.

Paint looks great, no swirls. 1 month down the road swirls will show unless it's waxed again.
 
So what you are saying is that you could park a swirl free car in a garage for 30 days and when you pull it out again there will be swirls? :dunno Swirls are the result of driving, among many other things. The swirls don't come back because they were there all the time. They come back because that is just what happens on any car that spends any amount of time being used as a car. Saying that they can't be removed isn't correct. Perhaps saying that you can't avoid them would be more accurate.
 
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