S100 Vs P21s?

I

imported_Indy YZF

New member
Up til now, Ive generally bought the 'urban myth' that S100 is the same thing as P21S; just about half price.



I just returned from BMW Techfest, where numerous tech seminars were held, not the least of which was a detailing seminar conducted by none other than Larry Reynolds of Car Care Specialities. He is a PHD and a Chemist in such areas covering car coatings.. He also was instrumental in developing the P21s wax product. With his contacts among all the key car surface chemical makers, and his in depth knowledge of the makeup of all these products, I figured hed be the perfect person to finally get the truth from.



So, I put it to him, simply.... 'Its a commonly held belief that S100 from the bike market, and P21s from the Auto market, are the identical product, cept that the S100 is almost half the price.. Is This True?'.



And his answer was an emphatic NO. The differences he says, revolve around longevity, and reflectiveness. He said that with the greater expanse of flat surfaces of teh car compared to the bike's tubular frame, there is alot more reflectivity for the flat surfaces in the P21S ... And, there is a higher carnauba content, hence greater longevity, in the P21S product.. Hence the higher price.



In evaluating this appraisal, as a retailer, he can carry either product...... He gets hundreds of products each month to evaluate... He doesnt put anything on their product line until its been well tested, and the testers feel its got something going for it, which puts it at the top of its class. Even from a mony standpoint, if they were the same, why not just carry the S100, and sell a whole lot more of it?



For anybody that knows him, Larry is a bit of an 'eccentric' I would say, and pretty set in his ways.. He only recently came over to MicroFiber, for instance, heretofore, believing 100% cotton is the only way to go. Hes his own man... And when he makes this P21S claim, I tend to believe him....



Do we have anybody here who has actually done a chemical decomposition of the two products? I broke down and bought a container of the stuff, which I will try along side my S100. Truth is, I still have no idea if they are the same or not.. But he certainly Did cause me to open up the idea for speculation once again, that perhaps, theyre not the same after all!
 
I RESPECT your opinion BUT about 2 years ago I was really annoyed so I e mailed P21s websight,we went back and forth with e mails until I recieved a e mail stating that there is no difference between the two.THAT WAS MY PIECE OF MIND.If you took 2 identicial cars and waxed one with S100 and the other with P21s I doubt you can tell the difference BUT that is my opinion.Lets face it they are both GREAT products
 
I've also heard that they are slightly different. I didn't hear about them looking different but that P21S was more durable.



I can't remember where I heard that so this reply is worthless. Sorry.
 
I was told by P21S that they are different due to the Clearcoat differences on a bike and car. Bikes clearcoats are different due to the fuel spillage issues. However I wasnt told which one is better.
 
They are a different color, and if I might say the S100 feels a little different to my fingers--a little more greasy and waxy where the P21S feels a little thinner or buttery.



But I like both of them, and they do the same thing! So I get the S100. Cheaper and local.
 
The man that was instrumental in its development told me they are different formulations, due to the different requirements of shining and protecting a bike's frame, tubular in nature, and a car's surface, which frequently sees more rain duty, and has different shine requirements. Whatever.... hes supposed to be a straight shooter, not prone to internet hype.. since he tells me theyre different, IM going to believe him, not the hype from sales reps, cst srvc people, and internet myths.
 
The difference is not worth the money to me. If there was a distinctive, non-debatable difference and P21S was better, MAYBE P21S would be worth the money. As it stands, S100's "inferiority" as a car wax compared to P21S is still a better value. I'm staying the course with S100.
 
paul e said:
The man that was instrumental in its development told me they are different formulations, due to the different requirements of shining and protecting a bike's frame, tubular in nature, and a car's surface, which frequently sees more rain duty, and has different shine requirements.
Click to expand...



Then he doesn't know bikes very well. Today's sportbikes have extruded or cast aluminum frames, and are box section. The FAIRINGS, on the other hand, have huge flat surfaces. Ask him to look at a Kawasaki ZX10R and see if there is as much flat surface relative to overall surface area than a corvette.



Also, even with a bike with tubular and trellis frames like my Beemer or a Ducati, no one waxes the frames, just the paint work on the fairings. Unless S100 was designed for only cruisers like Harley's, which have no fairings for the most part.



Either way, his argument doesn't wash. I am not saying that there is no difference between P21S and S100. I am just saying that maybe he isn't as much of an authority as he's made out to be.
 
>Either way, his argument doesn't wash. I am not saying that there is no difference between P21S and S100. I am just saying that maybe he isn't as much of an authority as he's made out to be.<<



Thats all very possible. Im not debating that. .My only point was that IVe read too many times to count, people's assertions that, 'They Are Identical'. My only point in making this thread is that according to a developer of the product, theyre not. Whether or not one is worth it over the other, or not, is a decision obviously everyone will have to make for themselves.
 
beastie said:
The difference is not worth the money to me. If there was a distinctive, non-debatable difference and P21S was better, MAYBE P21S would be worth the money. As it stands, S100's "inferiority" as a car wax compared to P21S is still a better value. I'm staying the course with S100.
Click to expand...



Well said.
 
paul e said:
Whatever.... hes supposed to be a straight shooter, not prone to internet hype.. since he tells me theyre different, IM going to believe him, not the hype from sales reps, cst srvc people, and internet myths.
Click to expand...



Well, if I recall correctly, the person who first told us that P21S & S100 were the same thing was DavidB.... who, IMO, has a pretty decent rep for being a straight shooter as well.



Also, if you're going to believe Mr. Reynolds, does this mean you're going to stop claying your car?



Sorry, I don't mean any disrespect....it's just that a lot of Mr. Reynolds' views do not jibe very well with some of the stuff emphasized here on Autopia....
 
>>Also, if you're going to believe Mr. Reynolds, does this mean you're going to stop claying your car?



<<



you choose your poison.



BTW, in his tech session, he wasnt against claying, per se.. just against overdoing it, like too often, or too carelessly.. regardless of what youve read in his papers. he does ammend his views from time to time, as any thinking person should do. Hes now a big fan of micro fiber, for instance. I dont take everything he says as the gospel.... But when a product developer tells me something about how it was made, and whether or not its the same as a related product in the line, Im usually going to believe him... you all can believe whatever you want.
 
paul e said:
BTW, in his tech session, he wasnt against claying, per se.. just against overdoing it, like too often, or too carelessly.. regardless of what youve read in his papers. he does ammend his views from time to time, as any thinking person should do. Hes now a big fan of micro fiber, for instance. I dont take everything he says as the gospel....
Click to expand...



Ah, gotcha. Thanks for clarifying that! That much I can certainly agree with! :up
 
>>Does he have any vested interest in whether we buy S100 or P21S?<<



Of course not! he will carry whatever products he and his testers determine do the best job. He could carry S100 if he felt it provided a better value and result. I have no idea which product offers bigger markup. YOu cant assume that simply because a product costs more, its got more built in markup . And if it did, that would go to P21s, not the retailer. Its strictly that the man, having been involved with P21s and the development of this product believes it to be the more effective wax for automotive use.. .. Its very likely that the avg car care guy will go for the cheaper wax. But he deals with concourse winners, and makes it a point to carry the best. He feels thats it.. that doesnt make it right. and it doesnt mean its right for you. AGain, the only purpose in my posting this was that based on what a developer of the product says, it is NOT the same product as S100.
 
Calm down, it was only a question. If I find some P21S local, I will compare it on the hoods of my cars. I have black and light green to work with. Probably wont be soon though cause the wife is about to go crazy with the UPS man stopping here every other day as it is.
 
O.K.lets say they are different does p21S warrent to be twice the price of S100? I dont think so .............
 
>>Calm down, it was only a question<<



believe me, IM calm.. Its amusing though how sometimes, some members here are so indoctrinated into a set way of thinking that they are totally closed off to the idea that something might not be as it seems.. must have something to do with shaken world views or something. Hey.. its just wax, for chrissake! Anyway, Id be real interested in hearing your results.. IF you can do half your hood with p21s and the other half with s100, same amount, same procedure, and watch it shine and watch it age, Id love to hear it. Id do it, but with a bmw Alpine White M3, Im not going to be able to tell nearly as well about the reflectivity, at any rate, although I would think I can learn some thing about longevity. But IM not a good candidate to test it becaues IM always touching up, spraying quick detailer of one kind or another, some with carnauba, etc, that I wont get a good reading. Im also always attaching this fine scratch or that, and finising off with wax.. I hardly have a virgin horizontal panel to use for this! Maybe the rear deck lid would work.. I dont usually work on that much between waxes!! :)



>>O.K.lets say they are different does p21S warrent to be twice the price of S100? I dont think so <<



The point is, for you its not, but you cant make that determination for others.. Just let them know its different stuff, and let them make up their own minds.
 
Larry is a very knowledgable guy, but he told me that using a PC7424 is a waste of time too, so you have to take what he says with a grain of salt. BTW, I love my PC7424 and it beats using my hands.
 
>>Larry is a very knowledgable guy, but he told me that using a PC7424 is a waste of time too, so you have to take what he says with a grain of salt. BTW, I love my PC7424 and it beats using my hands<<



Agreed, 100%, and, had he not actually worked on the product development, Id probably question it also. BTW, in the same way that hes come around on microfiber, I think he has too on some machine use.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top