Question about KSG curing and water condensation...

Ankhenaton

New member
Basically, I will apply the KSG at 8am Weds, and buff off on 8am Thurs (or 5pm Weds *9hrs*). I will then apply the 2nd coat immeadiatley after removing the first coat. This is where I have a question. I am from south NJ. Where I live, water condensation starts to form on my cars around 7pm ish and doesn't completely go away until about 10:30am, 11am ish the next morning.



As you can see, that will be past the time I want to remove the first coat of KSG. My question is, what do I do about the water condensation before taking off the first coat of KSG? Can I just dry it off with a MF towel?



Please help me with this because this because I don't want to mess up the first coat of KSG.
 
Why are you waiting so long to buff off the first coat?

I would coat with KSG and after the vehicle was coated, buff off (or apply another coat w.o buffing), then apply another coat the following day.

Alternatively, apply additonal coat(s) following washes in the next few weeks.
 
You may have mis-interpreted the instructions on autogeek . . .I received the same instructions autogeek . . . .You will also find this trend/oppinion of informaion reguarding Klasse from the majority of pros who use Klasse here on the forums, just do a thread search and you should find information . . .



You want the buffed product of the KSG to cure, not necessiarly the haze. There are some who will say it is fine to let the applied product "set" for long periods of time, similar to ZAINO products, but you will find with KSG that it may easier to remove the applied product when aplied to the whole car and then promptly removed, or to just apply and remove in sections. . . .



Let the buffed product then cure for 8 to 10 hours, then reapply thin coats using the same interval between layers.



I like using 4 to 5 layers of KSG for vehicles that will not be seeing another detail for a while.
 
A lots of people simply use the wipe on wipe off method (WOWO). There does not seem to be any advantage in letting klasse SG sit on the paint for long periods of time.



I use WOWO, works very well.



One of the major problems with Klasse SG is that you will see very different methods is how to apply all of which seem on contradict each other..... however the golden rule is to apply very very thinly.....





I would two layers of KSG 24 hours apart..... wash / dry car between layers if it has been standing outside.



Perm







Perm
 
Ankhenaton- Noting that I'm one of the people who apply KSG and then usually let it sit, sometimes for a *long* time, before buffing it off, your situation doesn't seem to lend itself to that approach.



I'd try to get two layers on before the condensation develops. Worst case: the second layer might do a solvent-action on the first and end up being a waste of time/effort/product..not the end of the world IMO. I don't know for sure, but I'd suspect that the condensation might have an undesirable effect on the KSG so I'd do what you can before it develops.



Take the amount of time you have available between the first application and the onset of the dew and do the math to determine the longest possible wait between the application of the first and second coats. I'd guess it as: apply first coat around 0800, buff off and apply second coat around 1700, let sit for an hour or so and then buff off before the dew hits around 1900.



The extended drying period is an option rather than a requirement and IMO even the "24 hour cure time" is more of a convenient rule-of-thumb/conventional wisdom than any hard and fast, objectively determined rule. The fans of W-O-W-O would say you don't even need to do *any* waiting before you buff and some here will even say that you don't need much wait time between coats at all. I doubt that any of these differing opinions are *completely* off-base or people wouldn't continue to espouse them. Like so much here at Autopia, we split hairs and make mountains out of molehills ;)



After you do whatever you decide is best, I'd apply subsequent coats after the next few washes.



Abbey'sdad said:
I would coat with KSG and after the vehicle was coated, buff off (or apply another coat w.o buffing),



Not to sound :nono or :argue but IMO applying a second coat without buffing off the first one would, IMO, just result in more excess-KSG-residue to buff off and *no* more KSG actually on the paint. It'd basically be the same as applying too much in the first place. Richard Griot has suggested that approach when applying his wax and I just can't see how it can work- after you apply a LSP and you're ready to buff, you have an immeasurably thin layer of LSP bonded to the paint with a thick layer of excess product on top of that waiting to be buffed off; IMO if you add more (before buffing) it just sits on top of the layer of excess (or becomes part of it through solvent action), becoming more excess waiting to be buffed off.
 
Accumulator said:
Not to sound :nono or :argue but IMO applying a second coat without buffing off the first one would, IMO, just result in more excess-KSG-residue to buff off and *no* more KSG actually on the paint. It'd basically be the same as applying too much in the first place. Richard Griot has suggested that approach when applying his wax and I just can't see how it can work- after you apply a LSP and you're ready to buff, you have an immeasurably thin layer of LSP bonded to the paint with a thick layer of excess product on top of that waiting to be buffed off; IMO if you add more (before buffing) it just sits on top of the layer of excess (or becomes part of it through solvent action), becoming more excess waiting to be buffed off.



See the following part regarding applying KSG with a PC (multiple 'layers' w/o buffing):

KSG w/PC



I haven't tried it this way, just as I've never applied KSG and let set for hours or a day.

It seems to me that once it's dried, well...it's dried and letting it set there any further length of time doesn't really do anything more for the quality of the finish.



I can say that the buffing process with a PC using an MF bonnet is really nice 'n easy!

I may one day apply it that way as well, pre-moistening the bonnet with a homemade glanz of 3 parts distilled water to 1 part KSG.
 
Abbeysdad- Heh heh, I want to watch myself here....I'm assuming that David wrote that guide ;)



On a number of points my experiences with Klasse have differed from those of some other Autopians, and have lead me to employ the techniques that I advocate and to *not* employ techniques that others advocate (which probably work just fine for them). That's not to say that what others advocate is wrong, just that I know what works best for me and so that's what I recommend. I want to be very clear about this- I'm not making this a right/wrong thing.



I take it you were referring to the section that reads
It is not necessary to towel off the [KSG] film between coats.



I simply don't see how this can work, given the reasoning I posted previously :nixweiss I'd be happy to consider any explanations and I don't think I'm close-minded about it, but like some other issues (e.g., sealants on fresh repaints) I'd have to hear explanations that make sense to *me* before I'll believe it; I need compelling evidence. Fortunately, this isn't a "must do" thing where it'd really matter if we do/don't agree about it. [Edit: OK, I see how this could possibly work, see next post..]



It's conceivable that, with *extremely* thin applications, the subsequent ones will only add to the KSG build-film and not to the to-be-buffed-off excess, but I see that as being more theoretically possible than practically attainable.



A simple experiment would of course be to do two sections with each method and see if/how they differ, but, well, I'm not gonna experiment on my vehicle. If somebody whose opinion I respect does such an experiment I'll be the first to say "well I'll be.." and accept the results, but I'll still wonder about how it works and to be honest, I doubt I'll change what *I* do (not broke, etc.).



On the wait time, with nice thin applications I don't see any significant advantages to waiting, though it does seem a little easier to buff off after a while (say, at least 10 minutes) than it does if I buff it off sooner. This seems like less of an issue with KSG than with some other products (e.g., UPP). Note that I find KSG *extremely* easy to buff off and I never have any problems with streaking or delayed-onset-blooming, both of which have plagued others, even experienced KSG users who know what they're doing. My "leave it overnight" method is probably, in part, not wanting to spend more time on the minivan in one session than I have to ;) But anybody who finds their KSG hard to buff off might benefit from a longer wait time, I'd say it's at least worth a try.



When I applied KSG very thick, I found that the longer I let it set up the easier it buffed off. With a three day(!) wait even goofy-thick applications buffed off easily. Again, probably not here or there for most people. Heh heh, I guess I burned myself out on KSG experimentation so now I just stick with what I always have success with.



Sheesh, I'm writing a book here, discussing this stuff :D :o
 
abbeysdad- Giving this more (too much ;) ) thought, I can see that using a MF bonnet to apply might allow the "don't buff first" method to work:



The MF bonnet would (presumably) simultaneously buff off the excess, mix it with the fresh SG, and lay down the new layer.



OK, I can't see any real argument against that one...if one is applying KSG that way. But I don't see it working, in practice, with many other LSPs.
 
I decided I will just do one AIO, one WOWO coat of KSG, and then put down a few coats of Pinnacle Souveran. Screw the waiting lol! Is this method sound?
 
Like said in above responses with Sg i do 2x or 3x durning the day i usually do the whole car then wipe off or buff off then then start my next coat of sg by the time i get done taking off the first coat it's been about a hour already i then start my second coat ect. If i like how it looks then i'll waite about a hour then do my top with megs #16 yes i still have a can left.
 
Ankhenaton said:
I decided I will just do one AIO, one WOWO coat of KSG, and then put down a few coats of Pinnacle Souveran. Screw the waiting lol! Is this method sound?



Depends what you're after. One coat of KSG with Souveran on it will look good but won't give much in the way of long term protection/durability. The more KSG the better, Souveran is just a added-looks finishing touch. And if you're applying multiple coats of Souveran I'd spit-shine them so each new coat doesn't do a solvent-action on the preceding one.
 
Accumulator said:
abbeysdad- Giving this more (too much ;) ) thought, I can see that using a MF bonnet to apply might allow the "don't buff first" method to work:



The MF bonnet would (presumably) simultaneously buff off the excess, mix it with the fresh SG, and lay down the new layer.



OK, I can't see any real argument against that one...if one is applying KSG that way. But I don't see it working, in practice, with many other LSPs.



I think KSG is 'special' in that it is acrylic in solution, but not really in a carrier - I notice when I use the MF bonnet on the PC, there is no powder or any sign of loading - perhaps the KSG is being further buffed on rather than buffed off ?
 
abbeysdad said:
I think KSG is 'special' in that it is acrylic in solution, but not really in a carrier - I notice when I use the MF bonnet on the PC, there is no powder or any sign of loading - perhaps the KSG is being further buffed on rather than buffed off ?



Yeah, I too think that the KSG is sufficiently unique that we shouldn't extrapolate too much regarding other products. IMO that was my mistake, relating it to the same "apply without buffing" method being used with Griot's wax.



Yeah, the rules are probably different compared to other products.



When I was playing around with heavy applications of it, applications that were probably more like what the average detailer would do, I *did* get some powdery KSG residue on my MF (dark blue suede-style MF, might not've seen it on another type/color). IMO you don't see it because you're applying nice and thin, the residue from a proper application being so minimal.



I wouldn't expect the residue to get further buffed on though, as once the KSG sets up I believe it holds that form (through washes, washer fluid, heat, you name it).



Heh heh, ah the mysteries of Klasse Sealant Glaze ;)
 
Ankhenaton said:
I decided I will just do one AIO, one WOWO coat of KSG, and then put down a few coats of Pinnacle Souveran. Screw the waiting lol! Is this method sound?



In a word - NO.



Klasse doesn't recommend WOWO and for all I know, if you don't let it dry well before buffing, you may just be wiping the acrylic right back off !



I know ... I read a really long thread here about someone advocating this as it makes the wipe down much easier. But there isn't much point in putting it on if you wipe it all off before it bonds to the surface.



Beyond bonding, there is curing. If you don't wait 24 hours before applying the carnuba, the process may remove the uncured acrylic. Your better off waiting a day - better still is to wait a week, wash and then apply another layer of KSG or the carnuba.



I believe rushing this pprocess may be convenient, but may defeat the overall purpose.



'fast food isn't always the best food'
 
Accumulator said:
I wouldn't expect the residue to get further buffed on though, as once the KSG sets up I believe it holds that form (through washes, washer fluid, heat, you name it).

Heh heh, ah the mysteries of Klasse Sealant Glaze ;)



What I was attempting to explain is that I buffed off the entire SUV with the single MF bonnet checking it as I went along. But even after buffing the entire vehicle, there was nothing on the surface, in the air or on the bonnet to suggest anything came off. So unlike most LSP's, if you buff to a shine and there are absouletly no signs of anything 'buffing off', one has to ask <rhetorical> 'is anything buffing off?'
 
abbeysdad said:
In a word - NO.



Klasse doesn't recommend WOWO and for all I know, if you don't let it dry well before buffing, you may just be wiping the acrylic right back off !



I know ... I read a really long thread here about someone advocating this as it makes the wipe down much easier. But there isn't much point in putting it on if you wipe it all off before it bonds to the surface.
There's a great deal of anectdotal evidence in past threads that WOWO works fine. Several posters who have tried both methods report no noticeable decrease in gloss or durability when using WOWO. Given this, my guess is that a thin layer of KSG bonds almost instantly to the paint, making the "wipe-off" portion of WOWO just an early removal of excess residue. As you say, though, curing is another matter, and common advice is to wait 12-24 hours before topping with wax.



YMMV, but I wouldn't completely discount a method that has worked well for others (including me . . . WOWO is the only way I apply KSG these days, although I use it rarely).



Tort
 
Damn, now I am just wondering should I skip the Klasse altoghether and just top the Z-2 pro with the Souveran. Do people use this combo?
 
TortoiseAWD said:
YMMV, but I wouldn't completely discount a method that has worked well for others (including me . . . WOWO is the only way I apply KSG these days, although I use it rarely).

Tort



If you're letting it dry it's not truly WOWO and if you're not, it's probably not bonding.



Unlike AIO, KSG needs to dry before wipe down. In a true WOWO, I believe the product isn't allowed to dry on the surface. If it's dry, I don't think it matters if it's a few minutes or a day - dry is dry.



What I have read here described as a WOWO method for KSG really isn't since the very thin coating drys so quickly.



Just my take on things.
 
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