Professionals! Yeah right

J

JohnnyWinter

New member
I cut and pasted this from a reply I wrote out about pricing. I just want to say this is not directed at the person who does their own detailing because they love it, Or the person who does their friends car for $50.00 because they are pretty good at it. I'm directing this at the people who claim to be professionals and are charging sub-par prices for sub-par services. I'm talking about the people who open up a shop because they think anyone can clean a car and think it's a fast and easy way to make a buck. If you want to be a professional detailer, learn the trade.



That being said,



Pricing is very important in our industry. When I say our industry I mean the professional detailing industry. We are craftsmen just like learning to become a plumber. Unfortunatly you don't have to be lienced to be a professonal detailer. But we put just as much time into our craft as any other tradesman. It's a skill and an art. When professional companys (I use professional loosely) charge prices that are way below the industry standard it hurts the industry. Ther is a reason the prices are the way they are. It takes real work to detail a vehicle the right way. I not comparing a professional to a guy who cleans his budies car for $50 because he jammed a coat of wax on it. I'm refering to a professional company who because either they don't know the going rate or because of the poor way they do it, they charge really low rates. Some companys do this just to get the work. When a bunch of Mickey Mouse company's in an area are charging stupidly low prices it kills the industry. People (the un-educated detail consumer) see these low prices and think this is the norm. Then they get their car done and they assume that the poor quality is the norm. It kills the industry.Now when they see the prices of a skilled technition who is charging what they should they think there is no way I'll pay that much because the last "professionals" job was not worth the money they paid. Alot of people think, "hey anybody can clean a car, this is an easy job" If you want to be a professional learn the trade, don't be a butcher bottom feeder. Go work in a shop under a real pro and learn the trade. I'm not talking about the person who works on their own cars, I'm talking about the people calling themselves professionals because they waxed a few cars(which they are probably doing wrong anyways) The same goes for people selling quality detailing products. They sell it to "Joe Average" with the wrong instructions and wonder why the customers not happy with the products. Detailing is a professional trade just like any other.



Just my 2 cents,



JW
 
People want to make money at other people's expense.



If the consumer is not willing to research where they are going to spend their money then I do not blame the person that provides poor service for lowering the prices of real detailers. There is plenty of word-of-mouth recommendations that can be had if a person is willing to take 15 minutes to ask around.
 
This same pricing vs. service argument can be made in just about any industry. There are always going to be individuals/businesses that cater to the low prices and lower quality products in any industry/profession and there are always going to be customers. This is just a fact of doing business. To expect everyone to charge more and provide a great product is a dream.



Not everyone can afford or is willing to pay of the âہ“bestâ€Â� of everything. Most consumers have to weigh the opportunity cost of their purchases and then buy accordingly. Thus, there is a market for low priced low quality products in every industry because everyone places different values on different services. Such markets will always exist and that is why businesses can succeed at selling lower quality products. However, the opposite is true alsoâ€Â¦there is always going to be a market for higher priced higher quality products and services. It is the responsibility of the business to determine where, when at what cost, etc. these opportunities and markets exist and to tap them.
 
:xyxthumbs bet993



The same is true even in 'so called' professions, Iâ€â„¢ve been told âہ“Why pay all that money for an Architectâ€â„¢s fee when you can buy software a lot cheaper to do it for you?â€Â�



JonM
 
TOGWT said:
:xyxthumbs bet993



The same is true even in 'so called' professions, Iâ€â„¢ve been told âہ“Why pay all that money for an Architectâ€â„¢s fee when you can buy software a lot cheaper to do it for you?â€Â�



JonM
Click to expand...



Not only do I put up with those type of comments but in the legal profession you have attorneys much like the people the original poster was commenting on, who offer services such as setting up entities for less than ¼ of the price I charge. However, I have seen the documents these clients are provided for that cost and arguably the crappy one-size-fits-all documents offered by home software and internet services are better (and those docs are generally marginal at best). In a free market buyer beware.
 
bet993 Thats a side of the coin I never really thought of thats a good point. I originally started leaning towards companys who were claming to be "professionals". If a company is going to claim to be porfessional I expect just that. I guess in the perfect world my theroy would be great....LOL



Johnny
 
I agree that cost cutting hackers make it hard for those of us who provide quality details at a fair market price.
 
Scottwax said:
I agree that cost cutting hackers make it hard for those of us who provide quality details at a fair market price.
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I completely disagree. This is the type of statement that clearly shows a lack of basic business knowledge when it comes to understanding what makes customers demand quality details at a fair market price.



Personally, I would have to say that those cost cutting hackers have actually made it easier for people who truely operate their detailing business in a truely professional manner. Then again, I was never one who worried about what some business owners might consider their competition.



An industry does not change a business, however a business can change an industry. It is basically up to the true professional business owners in this industry to make a difference by remaining focused on their own business goals instead of wasting time worrying about the hackers they cannot change.



Just my sincere thoughts based on my own business knowledge and experience.
 
Frank-first of all, I have at least as much business accumen as you do. Not only have I successfully run my detailing business (which provides my only income) for nearly 11 years full time now, but I also ran one of the highest ranked Jack in the Box restaurants in a 96 store region. My store was #7 in overall sales improvement, #2 in overall profit improvement and #3 overall in lowest turnover. For you to even imply I don't have a grasp on basic business principals is ignorant on your part.



I am not saying it affects me personally to a large degree but it does affect the industry as a whole. It means I have to spend more time on the phone trying to educate potential customers instead of working. It can be frustrating to try and explain to someone why they should pay me a lot more than the last guy who detailed their car "who didn't do a very good job anyway". That type of person is very hard to sell because they've already been burned by poor quality work and have a hard time understanding why I charge more. And yes, I do have to focus on price to a certain degree because I have kids to help put through colllege starting in September. If I don't charge enough, it doesn't matter how many details I do.
 
I relate detailers to those in the construction industry. Anyone can enter the field because it does not require a formal education, and it is learned through reading and hands-on experience. That said, a high percentage of those in construction and detailing are either not qualified to be doing what they do or simply do not care and are only out to make maximum profit.



The same problems you run into when trying to find a qualified detailer are found when you have a trade that anyone can enter. Strict requirements are the only way you can filter out the garbage.



So who is going to write the strict set of requirements and then enforce them? Good luck!
 
I have been detailing for quite some time now, and I look at it a little differently than some might.



How many dentists have you all been to? How do you know beforehand which one is better than another? Word of mouth, ads, etc.? Detailing is similar to how you find any other reputable business. Hate to say it folks, but trial and error is sometimes the only way a consumer can be educated before they contact the right people.



Not many really good dentists, post the old "Clean your mouth for $19.99." Why should detailing be any different for those that are in the market?



I am licensed and have been for many years, and like many others I am sometimes upset that licenses are not required or even checked for that matter.



What sets the good businesses apart from the bad ones are the changes, or the types of changes, that our markets, vendors, and products go through. I'll tell you one thing, products can make or break quality to a point. You can make any product do what you want over the long haul but, how long does it take, and from a business standpoint how much does it cost me to make it right?



My opinion is let hacks run around with a rotary and sandpaper with water spritzers and charge $20 while my guys run through quite a few cars a day, and our repeat business is unbelievable.



That's just my take on it.
 
People don't generally understand detailing as a "whole". It is an afterthought when the car is dirty.



Once this occurs customers go to the phone book and call all the detailers on the list for prices. Other business (volume detailers) know that this customer will want the best price because to the uneducated consumer car care is about who can do it the cheapest.



That said, I make sure while a customer is on the phone to tell them what seperates my business from others, not negatively but positively. Tell them questions to ask other competitors and act confidently in the fact I will do the best job and offer up references.
 
Just a couple of thoughts. Lets talk about this topic. This is how we all learn. Maybye it's me but if you could clarify a few things Mirror that would be cool.



Are you saying that by having contrast in the indusrty, Non-Pro's vs. Real Pro's, it shows the consumer what a "Quality"detailer is?After they deal with a "Hack" they can appreciate a "Qualified" technition?



I agree with that. To a point, but, what if they scare off someone for a few years, or for good. Thats one less cutomer for the industry. Or what if a "Hack" company is using the wrong products and equipment that are faster and cheaper. 9 out of 10 times they are damaging the vehicle long term. What I mean by that is, lets take German paints for example. The clearcoat is actually diff from the clearcoat in other Auto Makers. In Germany they don't have to worry about the V.O.C's so they can make their clearcoat more flexible which means it has alot more chip resistant. The trade off is it's alot softer. I used to work in a shop that did these panits with a wool pad. It was really fast and it looked awsome when done, but the uv in the clear and the paints resistance was killed in the process. They had long term customers who after 5 years the cars were so oxidized and because they removed so much clearcoat when we measured after a few good polishes (that we wouldn't have to do normally, but because we killed the protection the first time) the clear was to thin to polish and the only option was a new paint job The same cutomer(s) stopped having any of the new cars they bought detailed. They charged a cheaper price because of how fast they could do the car. The consumer would have no idea. The cars looked awsome and they were getting them done cheap. The correct way to do it takes alot longer and the pads and chemicals are diff and more costly. Of course it should be more expensive. After a real professional does it the right way it will look awsome and still retain it's protection. The customer see the Hack price and it looks awsome. So they keep going there. They see a pro's price and think it's a rip off. If a pro had the chance to talk with them than yes the could educate them. But if they go to the hack first, and they see awsome results. Why would they go smewhere elese thats most expensive. Joe Average has no idea that the paints being damaged.



When you said,



An industry does not change a business, however a business can change an industry.



I don't know that I fully agree with this. When the Auto Makers "Indusrty"changed to a clearcoat finish it changed the"Business"bigtime. Products and supplys I had to purchase were now diff. It also helped bigtime because it was easier to work with I could do more volume That changed the "Business"for me. I was making more sales and that changed my bottom line alot. Also If you look at the history of the Detailing trade, there was a point when there was only farmed out detailing. The dealers had none. So business was booming for detailers. Then the dealers realized that they could save money by doing it in house. They started hiring and traning new people to do it hourly to save money. The industry changed the business bigtime there aswell. There was not enough cars to do for most of the companys.



What in my business could I that would effect the"Industry" enough for the Automakers, Paint, Steele, Fabric or Plastic manufactors to change?



I am not trying to pick a fight at all, I think it's always good to learn new things. If you could straighten me out that would be very helpful to me.



Thanks,



JW
 
mirrorfinishman said:
I completely disagree. This is the type of statement that clearly shows a lack of basic business knowledge when it comes to understanding what makes customers demand quality details at a fair market price.



Personally, I would have to say that those cost cutting hackers have actually made it easier for people who truely operate their detailing business in a truely professional manner. Then again, I was never one who worried about what some business owners might consider their competition.



An industry does not change a business, however a business can change an industry. It is basically up to the true professional business owners in this industry to make a difference by remaining focused on their own business goals instead of wasting time worrying about the hackers they cannot change.



Just my sincere thoughts based on my own business knowledge and experience.
Click to expand...



I completely disagree Frank. No matter how professional one is in operating their business, it erodes ones ability to charge a fair price when unprofessional people permeate an industry. The low prices and crappy work become the norm. A good example of this is detailing for auto dealers. Why will they commonly not pay a fair price to do a quality detail on a used car? Not because it isn't fair but because they have become "conditioned" to being able to low ball for detailing because of all the unprofessional people operating fly by night detailing businesses. The same applies to the retail market. There are very successful detailing companies out there that do benefit from "hackers" in their market (mine being one of them). However, what chance does a new detailing operation have against the sea of idiots out there that are 1. willing to work for peanuts 2. do crappy work 3. go out of business every six months? It cheapens our product and paints us all with the same brush.
 
:xyxthumbs ShineShop



Just some random thoughts-



I understand that detailers do have recognition type disadvantages in so far a â€Ëœpiece of paper on the wallâ€â„¢ (degree) or a recognized association with a listing of qualified members. We know quality when we see it (i.e. Scottwax) and if you take your portfolio to a perspective client along with refs you will gain them as future clients, but this involves a lot of time.



I think one recourse would be to educate Joe Public that detailing is not just a â€Ëœwash & wax and why he should take care of what has now become an expensive automotive investment. (I detail vehicles that cost as much as a luxury house did â€Ëœway back whenâ€â„¢)



And perhaps a published list of (Autopian type) detailers, this was suggested once before but had to be abandoned by Autopia due to liability issues, but such a listing could be put together independent of the forum avoiding any liability issues and advertised.



JonM
 
If you have ever run a detailing business full time then you know how difficult and TIME CONSUMING it is to deal with all the calls you can get in a day. I would say that at least 75% of the calls we get are "price checkers" that are just shopping around for the lowest price and won't give you the time to educate them on what the difference is between a good quality detail and a hack job. That's why I always give a "price range" at the end of the phone call after explaining what we do and why it is different form what a lot of other shops offer. I am fortunate that I have a staff working in the shop so the work continues while I sell. I can only imagine how much I would get done after dealing with fools all day if I were a one man operation like a lot of the mobile guys down south are.
 
I think TOGWT touches on the epicenter of the problem with the detailing industry.



In general the average vehicle owner doesnâ€â„¢t know a good detail when he/she sees it. As an example of thisâ€Â¦there are some people in my office who have some nice cars (CLK 500, X5, 745i, 545i, etc.) and can afford to pay about price for services they want (most pay a lot of lawn care, etc.) and in general do not do any type of detailing themselves (except for an occasional wash or drive though the car wash). However, every six months or so they will get their vehicles âہ“detailed.â€Â� In variably they will make a comment about how expensive it is but well worth it because of how good the car looks. When you look at the cars the most that is done is interior cleaning, wash, wax, clean the wheel wells and apply some dressing in various places. The customer in this case thinks they got a good deal even though the âہ“detailâ€Â� would fall into the category of a âہ“hack jobâ€Â� around here.



This perception of what is acceptable by the customers seems to be the first hurdle cross. The general public looks at detailing as washing really well and waxing (basically getting the dirt and grime out that a $10 car wash will not). The hacks and fly by nights are not the ones destroying profit margins it is a general lack of understanding by the clients.



That being saidâ€Â¦I donâ€â„¢t think the true professionals are ever going to run the hacks out of business. Even with a completely educated public (which isnâ€â„¢t going to happen) there are still going to be those who want their car âہ“detailedâ€Â� but donâ€â„¢t want to spend the high $$$. Therefore, there is always going to be a market for the hacks. The biggest underlying problem is not everyone buys vehicles for the same reason therefore they are not willing to pay top $$$ for a detail.



The best anyone can do is build a reputation of providing a quality service and then build a client base and business off this reputation. Sure this is difficult and time consuming and may not be extremely profitable in the beginning, but then if it was easy to make lots of money everyone would be doing it. Obviously many of the professionals here have succeeded and from reading post them it seems their clients are developed through word of mouth and reputation.
 
We certainly have offered-up very good questions with plenty of room for some good discussion.



FIND A NEED AND FILL IT

As far as having contrast in the industry, Non-Pro's vs. Real Pro's, that is really completely opposite of what I am saying. I just think it is much better to always focus on completely understanding what a detailing customer needs and wants from a detailer. Of course, the needs and wants of detailing customers can vary from one car owner to another. It's sort of like understanding why some people eat at fast food places, while others eat at gourmet restaurants.



BASIC MARKETING PRINCIPLES

The key is understanding some of the basic business marketing principles and understanding what makes customers demand quality details at a fair market price in the first place. In most cases, spending too much time worrying about the so called hackers is usually just a waste of time. Detailing business owners would be very smart to focus more on their own detailing market by fully understanding the answers to the following questions; a, Who is the customer? b, Where is the customer? c, What does the customer value? d, What are the realities of the customer? This is what basic marketing is all about.



80% OF BUSINESS OWNERS DON'T THINK

When it comes to thinking about what it takes to successfully market their own business, I would have to say that 80% of detailing business owners really don't think about these basic marketing principles, 10% think they think and the remaining 10% of detailing business owners actually think and base their decisions on these basic business principles.



So what does all of this mean to the average professional detailing business owner. Well, what it says to me is that 80% to 90% of all detailing businesses may not even survive for very much longer. Sure, they may still be hacking away, but there is really little hope for them to be any threat to the 10% to 20% of the owners who operate their business on proven, successful marketing principles.



INDUSTRY CHANGE

One last thought. Yes, believe it or not, a business can change an industry. Actually, one person can change an industry. Let's see; didn't Bill Gates and Apple change the computer industry. And how about Henry Ford; didn't he and Ford Motor Company change the automobile industry. And how about Thomas Edison; didn't he along with Con Edison change an industry when he invented the light blub. Hey, what if Bill Gates was born 100 years sooner, then everyone back then would have had personal computers and no electricity to plug them into. Anywho, the list goes on and on and on. As you can clearly see. 'Things Don't Change. People Change. And People Change Things'



These comments are my sincere thoughts based on my own business knowledge and experience.
 
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