Product Stagnation: More of the same crap with new bottles/labels?

Dan

Well-known member
Maybe I'm turning into a grouchy old man, but it feels like the past 3-4 years have been nothing but more new bottles and scents with the same old crap in them. AG is totally rockin' this method out. 12 different bottles with the same product in them. Seriously, what are some standout products in the past few years? The last significant sealant was Blackfire Wet Diamond. QD.... umm...OID? Even polishes seem to have stagnated. 105 and UNO were several years ago.



I'm sitting on a hoard of stuff that I actually don't feel compelled to get rid of for once, and it feels strange....
 
I haven't used most of my products since 2008-2009, but for some reason I still let it sit there, nostalgia maybe? The last game changer to me was probably D300 with MF pads, since then, nothing has really come out that has made things easier for me or made me say "damn". I still would really like to know who and what is relabeled in any way, I don't have any of what AG sells so I can't compare it to anything.
 
Dan said:
Maybe I'm turning into a grouchy old man, but it feels like the past 3-4 years have been nothing but more new bottles and scents with the same old crap in them. AG is totally rockin' this method out. 12 different bottles with the same product in them. Seriously, what are some standout products in the past few years? The last significant sealant was Blackfire Wet Diamond. QD.... umm...OID? Even polishes seem to have stagnated. 105 and UNO were several years ago.



I'm sitting on a hoard of stuff that I actually don't feel compelled to get rid of for once, and it feels strange....



Do you mean AG house brands and others they sell? Can you give some examples?
 
"Shelf" life of polishes, sealants, compounds, IE, liquid products will vary depending on the particular solvent used and what emulsifier.

Most of these products will have a normal "shelf" life of two (2) years if kept at a normal room temperature of 85F down to 45F.

One "high temp" exposure will often cause the emulsifier to start to break down, one or two freeze "cycles" will do the same.

With the advent of newer Federal and some States changes to the VOC content of products, many manufacturers of such products found it necessary to change the "solvents" used to meet the new regulations.

This change often required the use of a different emulsifer, however, many of the formulating chemist were not aware and stayed with the older emulsifer when moving to the VOC compliant solvent systems.

That said, some products did not require changes in the formulation and are able to retain stability for over 4 years.

Even the selected container for packaging may affect the shelf life of a product, say the manufacturer moved to a less expensive bottle/container, however the florination level of the plastics was at a lower level. This allows the solvent carriers to migrate out through the sides of the bottle or in rare cases, air to infiltrate into the container.

Since most of today's polishes, liquid waxes, sealants, etc contain one or more polyaminosiloxane resins, this creates the concern most experience due to these resins being "aerobic" curing-(IE-air is the curing agent for the resins, so when exposed to air, they start to "cure or catalize")

Hope this helps all to an understanding of why things are not as they were 6-to-10 years ago.

Grumpy
 
Gtechniq's C4

Opti-coat 2.0



These were game changers for me.



M101 is the new best compound. I wish it was easier to get in the states.
 
chrisguga said:
Gtechniq's C4

Opti-coat 2.0



These were game changers for me.



M101 is the new best compound. I wish it was easier to get in the states.



I think the newest one on the list is 101. C4 and Opticoat have been around 3+ years.
 
Dan said:
Maybe I'm turning into a grouchy old man,..I'm sitting on a hoard of stuff that I actually don't feel compelled to get rid of for once, and it feels strange....



Heh heh, oh man....you're starting to sound like me :eek:



I have stuff I'm *never* gonna use and to which I have no emotional attachment...but I still hesitate to throw it away. No, I'm not gonna go donate it to a Vocational Program, none of my friends want it, and I'm not gonna get any $ for it (at least not after I'd pay to ship it so somebody). Eh, what to do with it?!?



Ron Ketcham said:
"Shelf" life of polishes, sealants, compounds, IE, liquid products will vary depending on the particular solvent used and what emulsifier.

Most of these products will have a normal "shelf" life of two (2) years if kept at a normal room temperature of 85F down to 45F...



This is another of those cases where my experience differs from what "oughta happen", and thankfully so! I bet 90% of my polishrs/LSPs are at least 5 years old, and a lot are much older than that; I can pretty much count on one hand the number of products that haven't aged well (pretty much just QDs and some v1.0 VM) :nixweiss



..some products did not require changes in the formulation and are able to retain stability for over 4 years...



Ah, maybe that explains a lot of it! I bet most of the products I'm thinking of were pre-VOC :think:



One "high temp" exposure will often cause the emulsifier to start to break down..



Eh, it just kills me to have the A/C running merely to keep the (upstairs :o ) storage area cool, but whatcha gonna do...
 
Awww, man, I hope that stuff has a longer shelf life than 2 years or my whole week is gonna hit the crapper - along with about 65 bottles, cans and tubes of money.
 
Maybe you guys should start a "Trade In" program that will allow you guys to share/trade products:biggrin1: That will save you a ton of money:lol
 
Juan@Turbo Wax said:
Maybe you guys should start a "Trade In" program that will allow you guys to share/trade products:biggrin1: That will save you a ton of money:lol



People just don't want the hassle of trading. Back when BFWD came out I did a sampler set. Talk about headaches.
 
Yeah it doesn't seem anything super exciting has landed the last few years. Maybe we are starting to get to a stage in products where it will be mostly improvements on the same old formulas...
 
Pretty much, until there are major changes in the "film" placed on vehicles, their trim, etc.

There are new resins, the base of all the "protective" sort of products being developed all the time for "today's" vehicle coatings (paint), however, some new "film" is on the horizon.

From what I get from my long time contacts with the major, known, providers of today's "film coatings for vehicles", a major change in what is known as "detailing" will be required to rethink the way they approach their business of detailing.

The "compounding/polishing" processes will require rethinking, and not just the use of a dual action vs a rotary, or wool vs foam or micro fiber pads, but a real "learning curve" and changes.



Grumpy
 
I know the new versions of ONR and Opti-Seal are definite upgrades over the previous versions and HD Polish is a great new product, decent cut and finish.
 
thanks Ron, your probably right about paint - it's going to change alot by 2020.



since I got serious about detailing in the year 2000, I've seen alot of improvements in products and in the way we detail (paint especially) since then, even since 2006.



back in 2006 I was rotary correcting with Menzerna and wool/foam pads and finishing with an RO

Now I'm using forced rotation and random orbital to correct, rotary for Jewelling and random to finish but with the following pads



denim, velvet, surbuf (surbufs been around for some time), rayon glass/stainless steel polishing pads, microfibre, microfibre/wool blend



Am about to test out a Leather buffing pad from a USA manufacturer in a non automotive industry

And I talk regularly with the best pad manufacturer I know, in the UK about making some new pads from material not used yet.



As for polishes - I personally have gone from using thick dry/dusty or really oily solvent based compounds and polishes to a 100% water based burnproof single polish system where the products have the viscosity of water/milk and sprayable if I want too. Am hoping to receive a sample of the first batch of the newest (spray on) version real soon



sure theirs plenty of the same stuff being made but I doubt you will find the most cutting edge products on the Autogeek site or the well known suppliers right away.



whilst theirs nothing revolutionary as of yet, there have been some really good evolutionary steps taken.

a short few years ago I was applying sealants and waxes by wiping them on. now I'm using a quartz spray on sealant on every surface of the car to protect the paint as well as the latest scratch resistant coatings.



clay bars are now being replaced with liquid and towel/pad based decon systems.

it's a fantastic time to be in the industry and I for one am hungry and excited about what lies ahead
 
chrisguga said:
Gtechniq's C4

Opti-coat 2.0



These were game changers for me.



M101 is the new best compound. I wish it was easier to get in the states.



The coating business is really taking off. The other area is trim products have dramatically improved over the last few years. There has some improvement in APC's (more paint/wheel safe), decon products like IronX, etc. Waterless wash products are more common along with more rinseless offerings that seem to make some improvements (nothing dramatic).



The ones that seem to be less innovative are dressings, soaps, interior cleaners, many detail sprays, etc.



You see brands you have not seen much: Wolf's, Carpro, etc.
 
SVR said:
clay bars are now being replaced with liquid and towel/pad based decon systems.

it's a fantastic time to be in the industry and I for one am hungry and excited about what lies ahead



Good point, I would say the clay replacement towels are a good recent innovation, I knew someone would post something, finally! :D
 
Dan said:
Maybe I'm turning into a grouchy old man, but it feels like the past 3-4 years have been nothing but more new bottles and scents with the same old crap in them. AG is totally rockin' this method out. 12 different bottles with the same product in them.



i know what you mean, i find myself ordering less and less from them (there are other great small online vendors to choose from these days). i ordered a 3pk of the woobie towels and one of them felt and looked like it was used/washed. i returned them and will never again order any kind of microfiber towel from them and they are all over-priced over there at that...
 
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