People and cell phones

[Accumulator]

Maybe I just take driving more seriously than a lot of people. I avoid talking on the phone while driving, I do not drink until I'm stopped at a light or stop sign, and I avoid conversation if I am the driver. You never know when a situation will pop up that suddenly requires 100% of your concentration and effort. It already takes the average person around 1.5 seconds to react. Add having to get rid of a distraction first...

You and I probably agree more than it might sound I attend driving schools (the muliti-day variety) fairly regularly just because I take driving so seriously that I want to always be at my best. The latest one added stuff like driving (at high speed and around obstacles) from the *passenger seat* in case the driver is incapacitated No warning, you had to just take the wheel when the driver "died behind the wheel".



When the "deer incident" cropped up, I *did* perform to spec [Accumulator pats self on back ]



Actually, the average reaction time for untrained drivers is much longer than 2 seconds, and that's still under controlled conditions where they know they're being tested! When you factor in "making the *right* decision/doing the *right* thing" it really goes up. During the "lane change exercise" at Bondurant, the instructors were *pleased* if a student could make the right decision in around 2 seconds after numerous tries. In the "real world", most people are still doing the "what the....this can't be happening.." thing for a long time and by the time they even *attempt* to deal with it it's way too late



Rather than limiting what the competent can do, IMO we oughta just have more stringent licensing regs. Considering how dangerous operating a vehicle really is, I find it pretty incredible that most anybody can easily get a license and then keep it renewed forever. But that would go against the grain of the original topic of this thread- everybody seems to think that it's their "right" to do whatever they feel like doing and they're gonna exercise that right with no consideration for others

 

[GoodnClean]

Accumulator- My dad is the same way, he takes some sort of extensive driving course every 5 years. I'm going to join him this summer and I'm really looking forward to it. He made me take a little introductory course because he didn't like the state required course back when I was a kid but I've never been with him to one of the REAL driving schools before.



I totally agree with the stricter licensing regs. In MD its terrible. My fiance is from NJ and she wears contacts, without them her vision is terrible. We went to the MVA to have her license switched to MD a few years ago. Clearly showed on her NJ license that she had a corrective lenses requirement. Apparently nobody noticed because it they didnt put it on her new license and never even checked her vision. Last time I renewed my license they never checked my vision and I BARELY passed when I got my license 5 years prior. To get your license in MD you have to sit in a classroom for 30 hours and watch red asphalt movies (my favorite was the 2 classes spent on "How to buy a car". Then spend 6 hours behind the wheel of a training car. The instructor told me I was the best young driver she'd ever seen and wrote off my lessons after one. When I was 15 I thought that was really cool, now looking back on it I realize it was reckless.



The test consisted of driving into a "test area" driving down a long aisle, paralell parking in a HUGE space (and I took the test in a Cadillac my parents had at the time), doing a 3 point turn in a HUGE space, backing up 100 feet and that was it. Scary.

 

[Accumulator]

Heh heh, sounds like the test I took way back in the day. I used a full-size car too, and at least it made a good impression on the tester.



Sounds like MD is pretty bad about their testing. But here in Ohio where they *do* test for vision, the testers sometimes let it slide for old people; they let my father's second wife pass even though she clearly couldn't read it She was on the road long after it was truly unsafe for all kinds of reasons, but everybody just acted like it was no big deal.



A big :xyxthumbs to your dad! You'll really get a lot out of the driving schools! My wife is always telling people how that the training has kept her out of numerous accidents. People sorta expect *me* to be all enthusiastic about it (being a "car guy") but when they hear it from *her* they realize it's not just for car nuts.

 

[Slackmeister]

....everybody seems to think that it's their "right" to do whatever they feel like doing and they're gonna exercise that right with no consideration for others

That's pretty much what it boils down to....that's why people yap on cell phones everywhere , drive as if they are only ones on the road, litter, talk in movie theaters, fling their car doors into others in the parking lot, etc. etc. etc.....:furious:

 

[Accumulator]

To be honest, I find the whole "where your rights end and another's begin" issue to be both interesting and complicated. I sometimes feel I argue both sides of it, the "oh, get over it" and the "don't tell *me* to get over it" Guess the dividing line is courtesy and consideration for others, but *some* people sure are hard to avoid offending these days...

 

[TW85 HHI]

Accumulator,



I fully agree on stricter licensing requirements. I've voiced my opinion on the subject several times on this board and DC but I fear it is only a dream. A lot of people think it is their right to drive a vehicle. Well, no it isn't; it is a privilege.



South Carolina allows you to get a permit at 15 and 3-5 months later, a restricted license. Restricted or not, a 15 year old has no business being on the road alone especially with the lack of true training. My DMV test consisted of making left and right hand turns, a u-turn in a parking lot, parallel parking in a HUGE space, stopping from 25 mph, and backing up 100'. It is scary to realize that is all it takes to get a license to operate a 1.5-3 ton vehicle in this country (and $15).



Regarding the reaction time, I was questioning if it is actually longer but 1.5 seconds was sticking in my head from the course I took. It is interesting how the mind works because, as you pointed out, even when we were eyeing a point at which we had to take evasive action, the delayed response was still present with most people and several were still not doing what had been drilled into their head throughout the course.



I'm going to go out on a limb here as I think it is true. When the majority of drivers do not know the steering/gas/brake procedures for at least a sudden single lane change at 45 mph, you know we have problems with our licensing requirements. Another common problem is people letting up on their ABS equipped vehicles in an emergency braking situation because the pulsation of the ABS surprises them. These are things every single driver will face! Same with pulling out of a understeer or oversteer situation. Another problem, I think, is that too many drivers only look at what is 50-100' ahead of them. Considering a lot of headlights do not start illuminating the road until 15'-20' out, that is not much distance and I think that is what causes such surprise. The car will go where your eyes want it to go and if you look at the car ahead of you and a car five or ten cars of it it, you will not end up off the road or in another lane. When doing autocross, you are not looking at your immediate curve or turn but at the NEXT one.



I can go on and on about other drivers but that doesn't solve any problems. Because of our slack licensing requirements and the number of idiots, yes, idiots, on the roads, you can do nothing more than further your skills and constantly expect the unexpected. I cannot tell you the number of accidents I have avoided simply because of expecting mistakes. Like you, I will continuously take car control courses. I hope to take a more advanced one in the next year or two. It is the only defense, short of not driving altogether, against other drivers...and always trying to maintain an escape route.