PC vs. Rotary and Level of Gloss

I

Imatk

New member
So I watched the Meguair's videos on how to use a rotary.



From what the guy said a PC can't bring a finish to the level a rotary can as far as gloss.



Is this true?



I've been using my PC for a little over a year now, but now I'm wondering if I need to step up to a rotary to really get professional level results.



Thanks for any info guys :)
 
The majority of people would get a better finish for a PC.



Only the very best pro's could get better results with a rotary.



A PC is pretty much noob proof and does an exceptional job
 
Imatk- You mentioned Meguiar's- Mike Phillips has often said that he does his final polishing with the PC (after the rotary work). Not like his jobs don't turn out OK ;)



OTOH, there are apparently weird cases where the rotary finishes out better...very soft paint that micromars when PC'ed.



I dunno, I've never finish-polished with a rotary, only with the PC and Cyclo, and I get the results I'm after on *my* paint.



It's arguable that, *weird/special cases aside*, abrasion is abrasion and you can get the same results via any method if you put the time in with the right products and techniques.



All that having been said, the best finishes I get on the Audis always start with a rotary session to do ~90% of the work; it really does end up looking better than I can get things without the rotary :nixweiss On the Mazda and the Jag I simply don't need it; I get great results with just the PC/Cyclo.



IF you're getting the marring removal you want (the rotary does make that easier to accomplish, no question), what about your current finish is unsatisfactory to you? Anything? If *you* like how things look now, I wouldn't worry about what others say/experience; nobody can tell *me* that I need to rotary the Mazda or my Jag, it simply isn't so.
 
Thanks guys. Yeah I'm happy with the finish I have now, but I'm always looking to improve.



At some point I'd like to do this as a business, as I enjoy it very much. Just not sure if my knees would allow it :)



I was just watching the vid and thought that perhaps I should look into a rotary if I want to improve on my detailing skills... If I COULD get a much better finish with a rotary I'd like to know.



But if it's just a matter of time... in other words if I can get the same result from the PC I can with a rotary with just more time in then that's cool... I'd just like to know.
 
I do agree with Accum's observations however I switched from a PC to a rotary primarily because of the time savings to cut down quicker. the majority of my customers show up with neglected and moderate to severe swirls, scratches etc. I was spending 7-10 hours with my PC and not getting the results I truly wanted for the customer. The move to a circular polisher solved that issue for me. I'm now refining the "finish" with a circular and my PC is used for LSP application.
 
A PC is great for beginners with no experience. Great for applying LSP's too.



A rotary is faster at correction and gives an overall deeper shine, cause it actually deep cleans the paint.



Now this is where it gets fun. Not only is the rotary faster at removing defects, but if your really good, you can bump the gloss to the extreme max and have an absolute 100% swirl free finish that will turn heads for sure. I've caused a few accidents :chuckle:
 
JuneBug said:
Agree with weekendwarrior!! Ultrafina and rotary (with 3M blue pad) is the mack daddy.
Click to expand...

What would be the ideal speed?

What would be the maximum speed?



I have a 2 speed Makita rotary and the low speed is 2000rpm.

I used to work in detailing 20 years ago and was using this rotary to polish using a wool pad and acrypol but much has changed in 20 years.



The reason I ask is because I'm trying to remove cobwebbing from my black hood.

The hood is fiberglass and was painted B/C with Spies Hecker water based base coat and urethane clear.



I don't have an orbital yet but I'm trying to wait it out to get a Flex.



Being in Canada it's a PITA to get many of the products you have south of the border.

I do have access to Meg's and 3M products through my local Napa store however M105 isn't available here yet.
 
thump_rrr said:
What would be the ideal speed?

What would be the maximum speed?



I have a 2 speed Makita rotary and the low speed is 2000rpm.

I used to work in detailing 20 years ago and was using this rotary to polish using a wool pad and acrypol but much has changed in 20 years.



The reason I ask is because I'm trying to remove cobwebbing from my black hood.

The hood is fiberglass and was painted B/C with Spies Hecker water based base coat and urethane clear.



I don't have an orbital yet but I'm trying to wait it out to get a Flex.



Being in Canada it's a PITA to get many of the products you have south of the border.

I do have access to Meg's and 3M products through my local Napa store however M105 isn't available here yet.
Click to expand...



Google "eshine"
 
weekendwarrior said:
Products like M105 and Ultrafina make it easier to achieve an awesome finish with a rotary.
Click to expand...





Yeah, I do need to try those, if only for the time savings.



As for "100% swirl-free", I can get that without a rotary, just takes time. For the gloss, *on the paints I'm working on* the older version of 1Z Pro MP, used via Cyclo with finishing pads after previous marring-removal, gives me as good a gloss as I've ever seen. But again, it takes a while, gotta burnish the finish a good many times until the improvements quit coming.



Since my time is as valuable to me as it is to any pro, I *am* gonna pick up some M105 and I already have some 1Z High Gloss that I'm gonna try instead of the 3M UF (just a coin-flip choice I happened to make, not like I'm down on Uf or anything).

thump_rrr said:
The reason I ask is because I'm trying to remove cobwebbing from my black hood.

The hood is fiberglass and was painted B/C with Spies Hecker water based base coat and urethane clear.
Click to expand...



If the S-H repaint has finished curing, it's probably *hard*. I love S-H paint and the shop that does a lot of my work uses it on all my vehicles now.



I correct this paint with the rotary and then refine the finish with the PC/Cyclo. I'd sure try to get all the marring out but I don't go as high as your 2K speed, more like ~1700 max on this paint and often lower. If you want to do it all by rotary (before the Flex) I strongly encourage you to find some of the 3M Ultra Fina; I've never been able to get S-H (or any other paint, but especially this one) perfectly hologram/etc.-free using only the rotary.



For the coarser work, 3M stuff works fine for me, just takes a lot longer than the M105 apparently does.
 
Accumulator said:
Imatk- You mentioned Meguiar's- Mike Phillips has often said that he does his final polishing with the PC (after the rotary work). Not like his jobs don't turn out OK ;)



OTOH, there are apparently weird cases where the rotary finishes out better...very soft paint that micromars when PC'ed.



I dunno, I've never finish-polished with a rotary, only with the PC and Cyclo, and I get the results I'm after on *my* paint.



It's arguable that, *weird/special cases aside*, abrasion is abrasion and you can get the same results via any method if you put the time in with the right products and techniques.



All that having been said, the best finishes I get on the Audis always start with a rotary session to do ~90% of the work; it really does end up looking better than I can get things without the rotary :nixweiss On the Mazda and the Jag I simply don't need it; I get great results with just the PC/Cyclo.



IF you're getting the marring removal you want (the rotary does make that easier to accomplish, no question), what about your current finish is unsatisfactory to you? Anything? If *you* like how things look now, I wouldn't worry about what others say/experience; nobody can tell *me* that I need to rotary the Mazda or my Jag, it simply isn't so.
Click to expand...



Accumolator, I have a chrysler 300, how would you categorize the paint, does it have a soft or hard finish on it?
 
I don't think most people can tell whether a swirl free finish was done by a PC or a rotary, but the rotary gets it to swirl free much quicker. On harder paints, I can pretty much finish out hologram free now using Ultrafina. On softer paints, or if I don't have enough sunlight or my halogens to check my work, I'll finish with my UDM.
 
Scottwax, maybe you can answer my question. Have you ever worked on a 300c, i need to know the paint harness/softness of it.
 
musicdjs said:
Scottwax, maybe you can answer my question. Have you ever worked on a 300c, i need to know the paint harness/softness of it.
Click to expand...



There is absolutely no way for anyone to correctly answer your question. Even the same model, year and color can have varying paint hardness. Start with your least aggresssive combo and move up as needed.
 
musicdjs said:
Accumolator, I have a chrysler 300, how would you categorize the paint, does it have a soft or hard finish on it?
Click to expand...



Not being a pro, I'm the wrong guy to ask as (for the most part) I only know from my vehicles. Sorry! As ScottWax said, it's risky to generalize anyhow, though some cases are safer to guess about than others.



ScottWax- Sounds like you're really getting accustomed to the rotary, that was quick! Gonna retire the Cyclo to carpets/LSP duty?
 
I buffed a 2005 dodge ram yesterday and the paint was fairly tenacious. If chrysler paint is anything like that then it is pretty hard.



But, like SW said, its impossible to generalize paint.
 
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