Barry Theal
New member
Im curious, I often see everyone on here using things and advertising, This car got healthy readings. Maybe my point is what do you actually get out of these besides a picture for autopia?
Paint meters
- Thread starter Barry Theal
- Start date
evolutionwc3
Member
Cheap insurance.For me, knowing which panels have been resprayed is about as important as identifying the low spots. On the resprayed panels, I now begin with very mild pad and product combos(least aggressive method) and treat them as a separate entity than the rest of the vehicle.
Street5927
New member
I use mine to determine how much correction I will be able to do for a client. I have a client who wants his 86 Chevy Cavalier detailed, and it has a TUN of swirls and RIDS; however, the paint readings were only around 82-88 microns (roughly 3-3.5 mils). On average, a new paint finish is around 127 microns or roughly 5 mils. Needless to say, I advised him that with those thin readings, complete correction will be very difficult and can damage the clear/paint, however some could be removed and then I can use a polish with fillers to help reduce the other swirls. However, I always measure in microns for more accuracy.
Barry Theal
New member
efnfast said:
Couldn't you tell that a car has been worked on roughly in the past by paint texture though?
SoCalB6 said:
how do you know what material is underneath that clear? how can this meter tell you how much bondo is there if any? how thick is the primer? how thick is the base? are these important factors since were working what above this?
evolutionwc3 said:
yeah I got pretty cheap insurance through travlers lol Truthfully As one who is correcting paint, shouldn't we be able to tell what work was previously done?
Barry Theal
New member
Street5927 said:
at what point do you burn threw? 75 microns? Im curious. As to one who never uses one. how can a meter tell you ooops your close to a burn?
Street5927
New member
bufferbarry said:
I have several friends who are in the autobody repair business, and a good rule of thumb according to them (keeping in mind that nothing is set in stone because different manufacturers may apply a little more base and a little less clear and others may do it vise versa. Also, you have to keep in mind if the vehicle had been repainted due to a collision, etc.) the clear is approximately 38-55 microns or 1.5-2.2 mils. If you assume that new paint is approximately 127 microns or 5 mils (which would be less for a vehicle that has had some correction previously) then the clear would end at around 72 microns or around 3 mils.
When I do correction, I will not do any major correction below 80 microns, only because you don't know and you are only assuming the general range for a newly painted vehicle, less any previous corrections. Also, you have to keep in mind that paint is thinner on the edges and corners. You can get good readings on rounded corners, however, it is more difficult to get a good reading on the edge, so you have to be extra careful in those areas. (even more careful than normal).
I also have insurance, but this insures that hopefully I will never have to use that insurance.
Setec Astronomy
Well-known member
Barry, it's a tool, like any other tool, and doesn't replace the skill of the operator. It will allow you to confirm and/or refine your skill at determining paint condition/thickness, and how much you are removing.
There is at least one meter that can read clearcoat thickness (but only on non-metallic substrates).
Yeah, maybe, but what if someone as good as you had corrected it after, removed a lot of clear, and then the owner proceeded to swirl it up again and brought it to you, and didn't tell you (or didn't know) that it had had a heavy correction before? Maybe your eyeballs are good enough to be able to see that, but many people wouldn't be able to discern it.
There is at least one meter that can read clearcoat thickness (but only on non-metallic substrates).
bufferbarry said:
Yeah, maybe, but what if someone as good as you had corrected it after, removed a lot of clear, and then the owner proceeded to swirl it up again and brought it to you, and didn't tell you (or didn't know) that it had had a heavy correction before? Maybe your eyeballs are good enough to be able to see that, but many people wouldn't be able to discern it.
Setec Astronomy said:
Do you know the brand? If there is a meter that can determine thickness of individual paint layers then that would be a useful tool. Knowing total film build w/o knowing the thickness of the clear isn't very helpful. Now, if we're talking about SS paint then that's another story.
For me a paint gauge is like an IR thermometer in that once you understand the effects of your polishing, be it material removal via certain polishing processes (what the paint gauge is useful for) or understanding the upper threshold for paint temp by feel, you won't need it all that often.
Setec Astronomy
Well-known member
MichaelM said:
This is it: PosiTector 200 - Ultrasonic coating thickness gage measures coating over concrete, wood, composite and more. Conforms to ASTM D6132 and ISO 2808 and SSPC PA9 , but it will only work on non-metallic substrates, i.e. Corvettes or plastic bumpers.
Street5927
New member
GS4_Fiend said:
I am not very familiar with your type of paint meter, as I use the Fendor Splendor FS 502, which measures over steel as well as aluminum. Anyway, as for the numbers, most will measure in both microns (um) and mils. A Micron is a smaller unit of measure as opposed to a mil, hence more accurate. I always measure in microns. As stated in my earlier post:
"I have several friends who are in the autobody repair business, and a good rule of thumb according to them (keeping in mind that nothing is set in stone because different manufacturers may apply a little more base and a little less clear and others may do it vise versa. Also, you have to keep in mind if the vehicle had been repainted due to a collision, etc.) the clear is approximately 38-55 microns or 1.5-2.2 mils. If you assume that new paint is approximately 127 microns or 5 mils (which would be less for a vehicle that has had some correction previously) then the clear would end at around 72 microns or around 3 mils.
"When I do correction, I will not do any major correction below 80 microns, only because you don't know and you are only assuming the general range for a newly painted vehicle, less any previous corrections. Also, you have to keep in mind that paint is thinner on the edges and corners. You can get good readings on rounded corners, however, it is more difficult to get a good reading on the edge, so you have to be extra careful in those areas. (even more careful than normal).
I hope this helps you to understand the numbers a little better.
Street5927
New member
GS4_Fiend said:
IMO, that is extremely low and I would not attempt any type of correction. Think of it this way. If, assuming that your factory paint was 5 mils or 127 microns, and if the clear is appx. 1.5 mils, the clear ends at around 3.5 mils. I would not attempt any type of correction with these low readings.
Setec Astronomy
Well-known member
Holy crap! Did you calibrate your meter? I would think if you've only got 1.5 you'd definitely be in the basecoat if not the primer. Did it come with any calibration foils?
Accumulator
Well-known member
bufferbarry said:
Not IME. Unless something's been sanded/etc. it can get near-failure thin and still have the factory texture. My MPV is a good example- it's only been gently polished a few times since new, but the [stupid] Mazda clear is *so* thin that I'm down under 3 mils in places. If I just eyeballed it, I'd assume all was cool and I'd have an "oops!". I shoulda measured the uncleared areas before I did *anything* as I cut through to primer right away with *VERY* gentle polishing.
Yeah, that sure can be an issue! It just gives you a baseline starting point, still, that can be helpful. When I did my pal's repainted '60 Jag I gots a lot of weird readings, so I called him up and asked a lot of specific questions. Again, it saved me from at least one serious "oops!"; he told me how one panel had been reshot more than once but that it was also *seriously* wetsanded/compounded.
I pride myself on being able to see subtle diffs (at least with certain metallics) that are related to clearcoat thickness, when it's getting a little thin is just "looks off" to me- more metallic, lighter/brighter, less depth. I can see it on my Yukon and the M3 quite clearly. Still, my ETG has given me reason to pause and reconsider on a few occasions and easily paid for itself. And it's helped me avoid reaching the point where the thin clear shows.
As we've discussed before, I'm a real Chicken Little on this subject, always telling you that the sky is falling
I worry about this stuff well short of cut-through. Things get bad long before that IMO.On my Yukon and M3, the areas I've *really* thinned look subtlely different from the areas with thicker clear. On the M3 these areas look *awful* to me so I'm getting them reshot even though I'm selling the car. I've had this on a few cars that were wetsanded by the previous owner too...most people don't see it but it bugs me. Had I bought the ETG before I did that car's major correction, I woulda approached the job differently.
Besides the looks, I worry about UV protection as the industry guys I've spoken to said the protection comes from the thickness of the clear and that if you take off roughly half the original clear you'll possibly cause issues.
Yeah...I know
But I'd sure hate for you to have some come-backs over this. I saw a late-model Jeep the other day with horrible UV damage on a few panels and I'd bet my [you know what] that it's from somebody overthinning it during a pre-sale prep. The red paint was pink, but only on the surfaces I could imagine somebody hammering to remove nasty scratches...didn't look like repaint issue to me, for instance.setec astronomy said:
The black P71 Crown Vic I almost bought last year looked *great*, and I mean *nothing* looked "off" about it at all. Then I took the ETG readings and found it was one buffing away from the basecoat. "Oh, well...it had a little wetsanding.." Thanks for telling me (now) buddy, I'm sure he woulda said something had I not measured, right?
