paint correction

The two bucket method is the safest fastest way to wash a car that ensures you're not installing more swirls and marring. It adds about half a second to your wash time But saves you a bunch of time on the backside. And it's absoultly vital for maintaining a vehicle after correction. This is defaintly NOT a time waster and should be used as frequently as possible.
 
Jakerooni said:
Bryan the wipedowns (which I use prep-sol wipe downs in between compounding to polish and then another one after polish to check) Are not a detection of quality. And not even close to the point I'm trying to make. A good detail is a good detail regardless of the time it takes. There's nothing wrong with taking 20 hours or more if that's what it honestly takes. But there's absoultly nothing wrong with doing it all in 4 hours either if you know how to do it. The end result is the end result. The amount of time it took shouldn't be bragged about either way. Nor should it be stressed or judged upon by others. It's pointless and holds zero value to the skills of the detailer or the result of the detail. I will very gladly put my methods and techniques up against anyone else's But just because I can do it faster dosen't make me better or worse than anyone else on here. And just because someone feels they need to take 50+hours on a detail does not in any way shape or form make them a good detailer or a master detailer. or even a bad detailer. To me the final level of detailing once you master the technique is to do what you do.... Faster. Especially if you charge customers by the hour. You should be under an ethical obligation to perform the service to the best of your ability in the absoulte fastest time possible. Otherwise your blantanly ripping your customers off. If it takes you 20 hours to do that so be it. But if you know full well you should've been done in 15 hours then why weren't you?? Do you kind of see what I'm saying here?
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:lol:lol:lol:lol Your funny!



With me having 20 years experience in regular detailing from new cars, dealer cars, wholesale $500 crap boxes that are rotted out to full blown paint correction to exotics, collectors, classics, muscle, etc.... I can tell you that there is an extremely huge difference in quality between an 8 hour job versus a 40 hour plus full blown "TRUE" paint correction.



I wish you lived closer so you could come hang out with me for a 40 plus hour paint correction job. I will train your eyes and make you see stuff that you have never seen before ever.

:spot



I'll make more on this thread later on tonight when I get back home from a job.
 
I'm not saying there's not a difference. If you have clientel that demands 40+ hour paint correction so be it. 99.999999999% of us on here do not. However just because I can do what my clients want me to do in 4-8 hours time frame dosen't mean I'm cutting any corners or not giving 100% of what my clients expect. again I can't stress enough the amount of time one takes on a detail has zero to do with the skills or quality of that detail. that is only point I'm trying to make here. You're going into an entirely different class of detail there rydawg. To make it easier for you to understand can you tell me then what is the difference between a 40 hour paint correction and a 45 hour paint correction? Is the guy that's taking 45 hours to "jewel" his paint properly a better more skilled detailer than the guy that just "whips it out" at a mere 40 hours? Can the guy that took the extra 5 hours find ways to better his process to get it down to 40 hours? I mean 5 extra hours @ $75 = an extra $375 the customer has to pay out. Is that a big deal? Maybe maybe not. I know $375 is more than I charge for most detailing services I offer. so to my customers that would be outrageous.. Remember it's about the skill of the detailer not the amount of time it takes to do the job. There are so many behind the sceen PM's of other detailers laughing their arse's off at guy that sit there and brag about insane amount of times spent. It's like an on going joke most of the time. Not that the details are not just top notch but to put the emphisis that it took so long to do... I mean who cares?? It's such a stupid thing to have an ego about. It tells nothing of the skills involved.. Only that it took an stupid amount of time to do it.
 
You can make $1000 many ways.



Here are 2:



Meet one client that will give you $1,000 for your product or service.

Meet 1000 clients that will give you $1.00 each for your product or service.





I've always subscribed to the 1 client - $1,000 for my product/ service. At work and with detailing. If I closed 1 or 2 per quarter at work, I was done.





But the topic is, ABD has a "de-spider webbing" process that we all would like to learn more about.

Process?

Pads?

Links to the product?

Before and after photos?
 
Jakerooni said:
I'm not saying there's not a difference. If you have clientel that demands 40+ hour paint correction so be it. 99.999999999% of us on here do not. However just because I can do what my clients want me to do in 4-8 hours time frame dosen't mean I'm cutting any corners or not giving 100% of what my clients expect. again I can't stress enough the amount of time one takes on a detail has zero to do with the skills or quality of that detail. that is only point I'm trying to make here. You're going into an entirely different class of detail there rydawg. To make it easier for you to understand can you tell me then what is the difference between a 40 hour paint correction and a 45 hour paint correction? Is the guy that's taking 45 hours to "jewel" his paint properly a better more skilled detailer than the guy that just "whips it out" at a mere 40 hours? Can the guy that took the extra 5 hours find ways to better his process to get it down to 40 hours? I mean 5 extra hours @ $75 = an extra $375 the customer has to pay out. Is that a big deal? Maybe maybe not. I know $375 is more than I charge for most detailing services I offer. so to my customers that would be outrageous.. Remember it's about the skill of the detailer not the amount of time it takes to do the job. There are so many behind the sceen PM's of other detailers laughing their arse's off at guy that sit there and brag about insane amount of times spent. It's like an on going joke most of the time. Not that the details are not just top notch but to put the emphisis that it took so long to do... I mean who cares?? It's such a stupid thing to have an ego about. It tells nothing of the skills involved.. Only that it took an stupid amount of time to do it.
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Jake, I can't figure you out.



First you complain that people are doing details that take 15, 20, 40 or 45 hours. Then you say its ok, then at the end of your reply you again don't think its right.



You are doing details for a dealer, those guys just don't pay. So I understand if you have to knock it out in 4 hours. There is nothing wrong with that. I am sure they are very happy.



Now my situation is DIFFERENT from yours. If someone only wanted to pay me $200-250 for a correction detail, I politely decline.



Jakerooni said:
Bryan the wipedowns (which I use prep-sol wipe downs in between compounding to polish and then another one after polish to check) Are not a detection of quality. And not even close to the point I'm trying to make. A good detail is a good detail regardless of the time it takes. There's nothing wrong with taking 20 hours or more if that's what it honestly takes. But there's absoultly nothing wrong with doing it all in 4 hours either if you know how to do it. The end result is the end result. The amount of time it took shouldn't be bragged about either way. Nor should it be stressed or judged upon by others. It's pointless and holds zero value to the skills of the detailer or the result of the detail. I will very gladly put my methods and techniques up against anyone else's But just because I can do it faster dosen't make me better or worse than anyone else on here. And just because someone feels they need to take 50+hours on a detail does not in any way shape or form make them a good detailer or a master detailer. or even a bad detailer. To me the final level of detailing once you master the technique is to do what you do.... Faster. Especially if you charge customers by the hour. You should be under an ethical obligation to perform the service to the best of your ability in the absoulte fastest time possible. Otherwise your blantanly ripping your customers off. If it takes you 20 hours to do that so be it. But if you know full well you should've been done in 15 hours then why weren't you?? Do you kind of see what I'm saying here? .
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Then why do you do wipedowns if they are not a measure of quality?



Again you say its ok to charge 20-40 hours on a detail, then you say I am ripping customers off as I maybe I should of been done in 15 hours instead of the 20 I quoted. Again if your market will not permit you to quote 20 hours in a detail, then you have to do what you have to do.



When I can't charge what I do for details, then its game over. I refuse to do it for anything less.



Every since I can remember you have always had a problem with those that work on "nicer cars." If I remember right you referred to them as an elitist. Now if you think they are taking to long to do what they do, they are ripping the client off. :think:
 
A detailer should be judged by how well they meet their client's expectations, provided they offer an honest service. One part of honesty, especially if you charge per hour, is that there must be a level of expedience. For example, if you have to redo a section because of error, then it is absolutely unfair to charge more for having to undo mistakes. Or taking longer then necessary on purpose, for the sole intent of running up the bill, and not for delivering superior results, is absolutely dishonest and fraudulent, IMO.



Luckily the market will (eventually) bare the truth. What I mean is that in a capitalistic society, the market will only support time consuming, expensive details, if the time taken (and cost paid) in the detail represents a value for the customer. I am very humbled by the fact that many (if not all) of my clients have used other detailers in the past, many whom thought they where very good and delivered very good results. However my retention rate and repeat business is very very strong (over 95%) so after using other less expensive detailers who delivered less then stellar results, they (despite paining far more perhaps) find value in the services I provide. I have had discussions with many detailers in the past who had 'lost' clients to me, and they didn't get it, for what could be a multitude of reasons. I would assume these types of detailers would have private messages with each other, secretly laughing like about some inside joke, scratching their heads why quality work would take so long. I would imagine that the people getting laughed at are also laughing, because they are making more money and taking clients from the others.



Personally I have found that the better I have become (or at least the higher my standards have become) the longer my details take. But at the end of the day, it doesn't matter who is laughing at who.... If somebody could over the level of quality of a very high end detail in 1/5th the time, and thus for far cheaper, then I think we should all laugh if they aren't doing it. For example, detailer one charges 75 an hour and takes 15 hours to meet his customers expectations, thus netting him a total of 1125 dollars. Now if detailer B (who sells packages and doesn't charge by the hour) do the job in 6 hours (and still exceeds the owners expectations) he can charge 800 dollars (saving the customer 30%) while making 133 dollars an hour! Not only would detailer A lose clients to detailer B (I would assume that detailer B would be turning down work!) but he would be raking in big money. Luckily none of those detailer B types live in the entire state of Florida!



That is beauty of capitalism, the market determines the value. I know of the misconception that owners who pay a lot for a detail are either being ripped off or just like spending money. However, and I can only speak for myself on behalf of my clients, most of them are VERY hard working guys who are self made, and they did not get to their financial situation by making stupid decisions or spending money foolishly. Most (again if not all) of my clients have used other detailers who often promised equal or better results for far less money, and yet I have earned their repeat business. Perhaps those who don't cater to the .01% of the .01% of the .01% of the .01% of car owners (who view there car as art) will never understand or don't want to understand the difference, and that is fine! At the end of the day we must all produce a value of our customer and our market. Judging a detailer on how long they take to complete their work is really unfair (weird how those saying this tend to be the most judgmental, but that is another thread I think) and so is judging based on the name plate of the car. What is most important is how well a detailer is respected by his or her clients.



We should also remember that this forum doesn't cater to professionals, but rather to super crazy car owners and enthusiast who are willing to devote their time to learn as much about proper car care as they can. This crowd is going to be naturally drawn towards higher level, more thorough, ocd detailing then in and out speed jobs. Autopia is the niche forum for niche crazy people. If you don't fit the niche or it doesn't appeal to you, then there are plenty of other forums dedicated to the business aspects of detailing or speed work. It is kind of like going to Star Wars forum and constantly saying how Spock is cooler then Yoda. Different strokes for different folks, I supposed.



My 2 cents (currently worth .03 cents in this economy).
 
Todd,

good response.



I have always said that your business is one of the best in the business.



Dont want to get off topic but gimme a call when you have a sec.
 
Todd you nailed my point absoulutly perfectly. That's exactly what I've been trying to say. A detailer should be judged by their clients expectations. How long it takes to get there means nothing to the skill level. The ability to define the process and get the results is the ONLY thing that matters. The complaint I made was simple. If you go the C&B section right in the title of alot of of the post are "40+ hours" paint correction... Like it's supposed to stand out how long it took. And my point is who the heck cares? What does it mean to me or you or anyone else how long it took? Show me some pic's describe the process and actually "TEACH" others out there how you did it. 99% of the post after bragging about how long it took is extreamly informative and just that. I just never understood the emphasis on how long it takes to get to the finished product. It just dosen't mean anything to anyone but yet it's the first thing people want to brag about. Then new people come on here to learn and they see that and they start thinking maybe they just aren't good enough because they don't take that long.



And bryan I've explained the elistest thing before. It has absoultly nothing to do with the type of cars you detail. It has everything to do with the attitude and downing of others for the sake of being a d ick. I called Todd an eliest because i remember one post very specifically were a new guy posted a C&B that probably wasn't up to certian standards and instead of offering any sort of helpful critisim his response was "Man that really sucks" Now I've talked with Todd many times since then and I would say in the last year his attitude has gotten a LOT better towards detailers that aren't nessecerally on his level. But it's the attitude that is behind the "Eletist" comments. Which I try not to toss around very often. Not sure where it got construded that it was only people that detailed high end cars???
 
Jakerooni said:
Todd you nailed my point absoulutly perfectly. That's exactly what I've been trying to say. A detailer should be judged by their clients expectations. How long it takes to get there means nothing to the skill level. The ability to define the process and get the results is the ONLY thing that matters. The complaint I made was simple. If you go the C&B section right in the title of alot of of the post are "40+ hours" paint correction... Like it's supposed to stand out how long it took. And my point is who the heck cares? What does it mean to me or you or anyone else how long it took? Show me some pic's describe the process and actually "TEACH" others out there how you did it. 99% of the post after bragging about how long it took is extreamly informative and just that. I just never understood the emphasis on how long it takes to get to the finished product. It just dosen't mean anything to anyone but yet it's the first thing people want to brag about. Then new people come on here to learn and they see that and they start thinking maybe they just aren't good enough because they don't take that long.
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I think that you misinterpret the point of having the time posted. It isn't to brag about the time (I hope not anyways) but rather quickly convey that this is a very involved detail. It is nor more a descriptive term then 'Full Paint Correction' or 'Fixed a Hack Job'. It gives the forum members a descriptive term, so they can determine whether they want to click on it. Generally these threads tend to be very involved and sometimes show very dramatic transformations, and that fits into the attitude of the forum well.



And bryan I've explained the elistest thing before. It has absoultly nothing to do with the type of cars you detail. It has everything to do with the attitude and downing of others for the sake of being a d ick. I called Todd an eliest because i remember one post very specifically were a new guy posted a C&B that probably wasn't up to certian standards and instead of offering any sort of helpful critisim his response was "Man that really sucks" Now I've talked with Todd many times since then and I would say in the last year his attitude has gotten a LOT better towards detailers that aren't nessecerally on his level. But it's the attitude that is behind the "Eletist" comments. Which I try not to toss around very often. Not sure where it got construded that it was only people that detailed high end cars???
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Jake, I hate to keep hashing this, but I have tried to explain that post several times now.



I have a history of helping people with questions who ask for advice. Out of almost 3000 posts, I would guess over 90% of them are offering help or advice, when solicited.



So why did I respond to that guy, in that manor, if my history shows that I have been the exact opposite? Because I believe (and still believe) that guy was troll. He posted up shoddy work, and spoke about how he ruined 3 cars, and his next car was some really nice super car (or something to that effect, my facts may be off). However he never asked for advice.



In my opinion, that post (which I responded to call the guy a troll and ask him the point of his thread) and my response was spot on. There is a chance that the post was legit, and they guy did bad work, and planned to repeat that bad work on a very nice car, and if I believed that to be true, I would have not responded. However, I think that post, based on the way it was posted, was designed to get a rise out of the regulars on this forum and start an argument.



It kind of back fired on me because people assumed I was attacking the guy (I never said his work sucked btw), when I was trying to warn people that I thought it was a troll. I have been drawn into arguments on the forum, often because of 'behind' the scenes situations, but I have never singled somebody out or insulted somebody for fun.I do appreciate you saying my attitude has been better. We all try to improve (or should try) our weaknesses everyday and I have long way to go, but I'm trying. Being blunt and taking off line disagreements on line never works well as well.
 
jdoria said:
But the topic is, ABD has a "de-spider webbing" process that we all would like to learn more about.

Process?

Pads?

Links to the product?

Before and after photos?
Click to expand...





Also would like to know this magic method.
 
If that's the case about the time Todd I retract everything I've said about it. I do think it could probably be said in a different way because that is exactly how I and many others seem to take it. You've coined a few terms that have seem to taken off and are used as the norm for the most part now. I think this would be a good case for another one. Like I said the work is always top notch once you get into the thread. I think we are all on the same path on this board. (to give our customers 100% satisfaction) we just all seem to look at things in different lights.
 
i have found alot of people stealing my pics and text. i found one guy (out of state) and posted the same car (lic plate covered) so i posted pics with the cali plates uncovered with diff angles

oxidation is easy but after whatching you guys i want to take out spider webs too!!! lol
 
craZdetailer said:
Buying or Selling? Need A Detail???



hmm.. seems like you offer paint correction already but your not really sure if your skills are on par? :buffing:
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A.P.D. said:
i have found alot of people stealing my pics and text. i found one guy (out of state) and posted the same car (lic plate covered) so i posted pics with the cali plates uncovered with diff angles

oxidation is easy but after whatching you guys i want to take out spider webs too!!! lol
Click to expand...



So is that your listing or someone else's? You still haven't said what this method is that you 'discovered'. What are you using to remove oxidation if you are just now asking about paint correction?
 
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