Paint Cleanser by Machine Follow-Up

I

imported_Burlyq

New member
I recently learned that many of Autopians use machine for paint cleaners and I have always used my hands. Since so many of you used the machine I gave it a roll with my 9227 and a white pad. Boom what a difference! You guys changed me.



First I tried p21s cleaner and AIO on the same truck to do a side by side. I found that p21s cleaned better than AIO. Most of what I could take off with 10 hand passes with AIO, p21s would do in 2 or 3. Even two coats of AIO wasn't doing what p21s was for me. However, of course the p21s surface was smooth but tackier (make sense?) because it has no protective features like AIO.



I was dissappointed in the AIO by hand. The water spots that were coming out with p21s weren't coming out with AIO. Then, I used the machine with AIO and what a difference. The spots where GONE. So for those of you who suggested paint cleanser by machine ty (dookie).



If I was using the klasse twins on a car, I'd now use AIO by machine then sg/AIO. If I was using Zaino, I'd use p21s by machine then Z5 or Z2. Paint cleanser by machine made a huge difference for me and I've been doing it by hand for a decade. Pics to come if I figure out how to upload. Unfortunately, I have a 5MP and it's a pain.



There's one disclaimer I thought I should add. I did a bang up job on the wash, I left some dirt on purpose to see how the cleaners performed s/b/s and I didn't clay. Had I clayed I'm sure the AIO would have preformed better, however regardless if I clayed or not the p21s was up to the task. The truck had bad water spottage because there was no sealant on the vehicle and he leaves it outside all day. He's a fishing buddy and he got a free paint detail and I got some very good information. I'll probably be able to polish less because when I used to see water spots like this I'd grab for the menzerna, but I will miss my most used product FPII, I'll have to break it out for special occasions.
 
Burlyq,



I'm glad you found a better/easier way to do your details, congrats. Next, we just need some pictures!
 
Burlyq said:
First I tried p21s cleaner and AIO on the same truck to do a side by side. I found that p21s cleaned better than AIO. Most of what I could take off with 10 hand passes with AIO, p21s would do in 2 or 3. Even two coats of AIO wasn't doing what p21s was for me. However, of course the p21s surface was smooth but tackier (make sense?) because it has no protective features like AIO.



I If I was using the klasse twins on a car, I'd now use AIO by machine then sg. If I was using Zaino, I'd use p21s by machine then Z5 or Z2.
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I find AIO to be a much more aggressive cleaner than P21S. P21S is easier to use and leaves a slicker and glossier finish IMO. When I use sealants I use AIO. When I use wax I use P21S GEPC.





Why use P21S Cleanser with Zaino? Why not use AIO?
 
You've inspired me to re-think my GEPC and blow the dust off the bottle. I used it once and was less than satisfied with the results. I'm even more so surprised to hear you say GEPC removing water spots. I observed it to have extremely limited cleaning abilities . . . water spots were completely out of the question, while the faintest of scratches were merely covered up. I'll give it a whirl. Thanks for the motivation :)
 
stevet said:




Why use P21S Cleanser with Zaino? Why not use AIO?
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Because I really found p21s to be more effective on at least the water spots which is the main reason I grab for a cleaner, side by side it wasn't close. Two coats by hand and 40% of the water spots were still there with AIO, one coat p21s and fewer strokes and the water spots were gone, on the same truck. So unless the water spots were different from sides then they were on the roof, which IS possible because think of water coming off the road. The water spots on the roof could have had less acidic properties, in all fairness this could be true. I think AIO is wonderful don't get me wrong, the extra protection it gives is like a 1/2 coat of regular sealant. I would use AIO to SG because it is like putting two coats of protection on and that's all you can do in 24 period. As a system the two are very effective. Plus when you apply AIO by machine it makes up for dominance (for lack of a better word) of p21s on water spots, plus it gives protection, a nice bonus.



I'd use p21s to Zaino because you can layer Z, so no reason for AIO's protection. I will still try AIO to Zaino, because I haven't yet, to see if it's a deeper shine. I couldn't try p21s/z next to AIO/z because it's not my truck and I didn't want an uneven shine. I did try P21s/z2 w/o zfx on the roof because I was curious, a lot of talk recently about this. I guess I need another guinee pig.



Next time I'll try AIO/Z on hood and sides and P21s/z on roof. Unless there is a deeper shine with AIO/Z, then I'll stick with p21s/Z. The two combinations came out very well and the depth was very even, interesting because I only put one coat of Z. I won't put the first coat of Z w/o ZFX anymore but it still came out immaculate. I'm not sure if there will be wear issues later or not, we'll see.



One more note, technically is was S100 but I assume its the same as p21s.

And: Maybe next time I will try AIO vs p21s on the same panel.



An interesting thing happened when I came back to the hood not the sides. I didn't get all of the SG off even using WOWO, and I had no Sonus. It was a pain, but I went back over it with AIO to get the residue and it really changed the finish much more to my liking. It was much smoother and more of a zaino feel. When I use klasse, I will now go AIO by machine/sg/AIO by hand.
 
Burlyq said:


An interesting thing happened when I came back to the hood not the sides. I didn't get all of the SG off even using WOWO, and I had no Sonus. It was a pain, but I went back over it with AIO to get the residue and it really changed the finish much more to my liking. It was much smoother and more of a zaino feel. When I use klasse, I will now go AIO by machine/sg/AIO by hand.
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You don't have a clue do you:rolleyes:
 
Burlyq said:
When I use klasse, I will now go AIO by machine/sg/AIO by hand.
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Did I miss some sort of revelation? Why are you applying AIO/SG/AIO? The last application of AIO will remove the SG? If SG is streaking and you're out of spritz, try using a damp applicator with a dab of SG . . . buff on and off. Perfect finish. Done.
 
stevet said:
You don't have a clue do you:rolleyes:
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What's with this comment?!?



BurlyQ is sharing process and results that he found. His information is valuable to me. If some of his information is not correct or stated clearly, that's OK. We can discuss it and add, subtract and clarify. No biggie. The end result is that we all learn, improve technique and come closer as a group.



Your post is attacking him. It destroys the value of the thread and cuts short discussion. What's with this?!?



If your goal is to somehow expose him as schmuck, you've failed in my eyes. His post has value. Yours does NOT. You've done a lot more damage to your reputation than you have to his. To be very blunt, I've put you on my mental "ignore list".



Have a nice day.



Regards,



Dan.
 
Everybody play nice, now . . .



stevet, your post was uncalled for, and contributes to the adversarial atmosphere we've had around here of late. You remember that insanely long thread in Forum Feedback last week? Posts like "you don't have a clue" are exactly the problem that we've been trying to fix.



If you think there's something wrong with Burlyq's technique, then you're more than welcome to politely enter the conversation and offer a differing viewpoint. If you can't interact in a civilized manner, though, you may find yourself on the sidelines permanently.



Tort

(moderator)
 
Burlyq- I already gave you my $0.02 on KSG application on the other thread you started on this, but here's some more:



When you said
..I didn't get all of the SG off even using WOWO..
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I had to wonder why you keep working with the w-o-w-o method when it doesn't seem to work well for you. Not all of us like using KSG that way, and when I experimented with thick applications of SG (as in, goofy-thick, really slopping it on) I found that after letting it set up for a long time (overnight, or in some cases for *days*) even thick applications wiped right off. Could be that the w-o-w-o works best if you use nice thin applications. But again, I don't use it that way anyhow so if a longer setup time works for you scheduling-wise you might oughta give it a try.
 
Accumulator said:
Burlyq- I already gave you my $0.02 on KSG application on the other thread you started on this, but here's some more:



When you said I had to wonder why you keep working with the w-o-w-o method when it doesn't seem to work well for you. Not all of us like using KSG that way, and when I experimented with thick applications of SG (as in, goofy-thick, really slopping it on) I found that after letting it set up for a long time (overnight, or in some cases for *days*) even thick applications wiped right off. Could be that the w-o-w-o works best if you use nice thin applications. But again, I don't use it that way anyhow so if a longer setup time works for you scheduling-wise you might oughta give it a try.
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Well the WOWO worked very well, just not were I started (The Hood) because I put too much on. I was trying to figure out how to save money because I use MF apl and they are expensive and don't last real long, but they work great. I had the idea of trying a sponge to save mola. I will say once I got the apl primed the rest of the truck went very smoothly! I see you experimented too with "goofy" thick application, and it seams like you found an solution cool. The problem is if you detail for profit and deliver a car with streaks and stuck residue it might not bode well. I'm just trying to look for alternatives.







Knockwurst said:
Did I miss some sort of revelation? Why are you applying AIO/SG/AIO? The last application of AIO will remove the SG? If SG is streaking and you're out of spritz, try using a damp applicator with a dab of SG . . . buff on and off. Perfect finish. Done.
Click to expand...

Yes, I was going to try dampened SG to remove, but i had put too much on and it was real hard to remove. I thought AIO then reapply SG with the applicator, now that the applicator was nice and primed, but as it turned out this worked for me, and I didn't need the next coat of SG. Either way I wont put SG on with a sponge again, I was just experimenting. Like I said I have no idea about durabilty, maybe the people who doubt this method are totally right, but the results were there. I will follow the truck and report the protection level after 2 months. It will be easy to see any differences because the fenders have SG as last step.
 
Only use AIO once.

Your quote Burlyq, "If I was using the klasse twins on a car, I'd now use AIO by machine then sg/AIO."

I hope you didn't mean you did AIO then SG then AIO? Go AIO then SG. SG will protect the AIO.

I still use a paint cleaner before AIO. I use Sonus. I believe paint cleaners have different cleaning charactristics than AIO. AIO is a acrylic not just a cleaner, so it cleans, lightly polishes and protects. I think it's the most important application.



I Clay, Sonus Paint Cleaner, Sonus SFX Polishes, Klasse AIO, SGx2, P21S
 
Burlyq said:
...I was trying to figure out how to save money because I use MF apl and they are expensive and don't last real long, but they work great. I had the idea of trying a sponge to save mola. I will say once I got the apl primed the rest of the truck went very smoothly! I see you experimented too with "goofy" thick application, and it seams like you found an solution cool. The problem is if you detail for profit and deliver a car with streaks and stuck residue it might not bode well. I'm just trying to look for alternatives.
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Doing it for mprofit does make a difference; you won't always have time to let it cure for a long time. FWIW, I use foam to apply SG and the pads last for a long, long time. Heh heh, the "for profit" might be additional motivation to try applying the SG super-thin (wasted product is lost profit) ;)



But honestly, if I were doing it for customers I don't think I'd use the K twins anyhow...
 
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