Pad & Product Recomendaitons???

C

CAdetailer

New member
I am looking for Process, Pad, & Product guidance/recommendations as I stopped detailing before foam pads came to the market and I am intending on getting back in to it so I can do my own cars.

I learned on a high speed rotary with an 8 in wool pad, then did multi-step hand polishes with a final coat of carnuba sealer wax. I probably did 18-20 cars with the the rotary/wool pad set so I think the rotary is the choice for me to perform corrections with VS. the DA process that I've read about (but I could be wrong).

From doing a little research I think I should go with a Makita 9227C for a rotary to do heavy cutting. And possibly a Porter Cable 7424 XP for a DA to do mid-step polishing and final glossing/jeweling.

The cars I am doing are and I want a deep gloss/shine on both;
1) 2007 Toyota 4 Runner, Black
2) 2004 Dodge Ram 2500, metallic charcoal gray
(Not sure what the paint process/qualities of these vehicles are)

Process?:
From the "Old Days" I assume it is a 4 or multi-step process as follows:
1) Heavy cutting
2-A Heavier polish
2-B Lighter Polish/swirl remover
3) Final gloss polish/finish or what you are calling jeweling?
4) Hand wax /final coating or sealing?
(If I am wrong please give your recommendations)

Assuming I have the process above correct or close, given my choice or tools what tool, pad(s) and product(s) can you recommend for the various steps.
1)Tool = Rotary/ Pad(s) = / Product(s) =
2-A) Tool = / Pad(s) = / Product(s) =
2-B) Tool = / Pad(s) = / Product(s) =
3) Tool = / Pad(s) = / Product(s) =
4) Tool = / Pad(s) or Hand = / Product(s) =

If you guys could correct/recommend my process and fill in the blanks on tool(s), pad9s), & product(s) that would be great.

(Of course I am planning on starting with a good wash and clay.)

Thanks in advance for sharing your knowledge & expertise

Bret
 
Depending on how heavy of correction you are anticipating, you may only need a DA + MF /Surbuf + a SMAT compound like Megs 105 or Optimum pads for correction and DA + polishing or finishing foam and polish. The MF especially cuts fast and finishes well.
 
CA Detailer --

Welcome to the Forum ! What part of CA are you from ?
I lived in NorCal for about 35 years (Sacramento, Carmichael, Fair Oaks, Rancho Cordova, Folsom) Have kids in Roseville and Huntington Beach, family in Cambria.

I hear you about the Old School, I did all that stuff too.

Nowadays,. its way simpler, less steps, smaller diameter pads, foam, or the newest microfiber products.

I always use a Rotary for my correction and finish work, and then sometimes use a Flex 3401VRG (forced rotation random orbital) to apply the last Jeweling process, sometimes a glaze, sometimes a good acrylic polymer sealant.

I have the Makita 9227c - awesome machine, good price, will never break, but long, large, and a bit heavy for some people. (not me)..

Also have the Flex PE 14-250 Rotary, smaller, shorter, thinner, easier to maneuver around, lighter a little bit.

You are going to find that the Compounds out today do a great job of correcting, and finishing down pretty darn good compared to stuff like that old 3M Orange Compound that we used to use with wool to cut newly painted panels quickly..

You can look at the Meguiars 105, 205 products for a good compound, and finish polish team for starters, and then if you want to look further, there are a great bunch of German products - Menzerna - that also work really well and are at different levels of cut and polish, down to no cut at all, just polish.

Foam pads are the thing most people use with a Rotary - I like the Lake Country Hydro-Tech Cyan pads for initial correcting of most work, and the HydroTech Cyan pads for finishing down to really nice, clear, glossy results.

The newest things out today are Microfiber pads from Meguiars - a whole kit of cutting, polishing, and specially made compound and polishing products are availabe and are made to be used with a Random Orbital machine. Meguiars makes a nice one - the G110v2 I believe, but most people instead buy the random orbital from Griot's catalog because it is supposed to be better, and has a lifetime warranty.

There is another microfiber pad out, made by Optimum, out of Tennessee, and it has just starting hitting the suppliers like the one here.
These microfiber pads, however, are designed to be able to be used with either Rotary or random orbital, so that could perhaps be a good thing, if they really work better than foam.

Your wool pads, and wool blend pads are still out there, but I have had way better success with a foam/wool blended pad - the Purple Foam Wool pad from Lake Country, that I only use for really impossibly scratched, etc., paintwork, or airplane paint, and something like Meguiars 105 compound to start. Amazingly so, these foam wool pads actually finish down pretty darn good compared to the old pads we were used to long ago.

You might find that the high speeds of yesteryear are not really needed today to get your correction done. The paint has all changed as you know, to water based, and there is not as much of it except on some vehicles, and the compounds also break down differently and I find that slower speeds will get you to the same correction level without alot of compound fling, and dust., etc..

Hope this helps, enjoy your time here, there are a bunch of awesome Detailers and Could-Be-Detailers, (if they didnt already have another job) on here, the Forum Support people are just the BEST, and their store is like Candy Land !!! :)

Dan F
 
Hi Dan,
Thanks for the reply, I'm in Huntington Beach.

Sounds like Lake county is the way to go with the foam pads but which pads and which product achieve what results?
IE:
Step 1) Rotary, with a CCS Yellow or Orange with Meguires 105?
Step 2) Rotary or DA?, with a CCS Green or White, with Meguires 205
Step 3) DA, with a CCS Red or Blue, with ???

Since I'm starting from scratch with my tools, pads, and products what is a good selection of stuff and what is a good process for a black car with heavy fall out that I want super glossy?

Thanks for the advice
 
Huntington Beach !!
Just talked to my daughter there - it must be nice to see the sun every day !!!

Sorry, have been Detailing a 98 528i Seafoam Green, that was a crime scene car. Had tons of that dang black fingerprint powder all over the inside - seats, carpets, dash, windows, everywhere, dang police rookies !!!

Now, on to your project ---

You can use Meguiars 105 or even their OTC Ultimate Compound with a yellow, or orange pad just fine. If the paint is really hard and the defects are really deep, you may need to make several passes or if not getting anywhere,drop down to L/C purple foam wool pads.

Is this the original paint? What year Jeep ? is it Jet Black, or a Metallic Black?
Ever been repainted? Where?
Do you have a paint thickness gauge ?

This is how I use Meguiars 105 - foam or purple wool pad, moisten pad a little, add the 105 to the pad evenly, not too much. Spread material on pad on the spot you want to compound, start at lowest speed to spread it and get it working, then gradually increase speed to next level, keep machine moving, a little pressure on machine. About now, the 105 will want to look dried up and start acting badly. Dont worry. Spritz a little QD, water, whatever you used to prime the pad initially, on the paint, start again, low speed, building up a notch or two, work the compound and it will start to smooth out and cut better. Stop before it dries, wipe off and see how you did.

Meguiars 205 works so much differently than 105, you would be hard pressed to know they are related. Easy to use, can take pressure, finishes down nicely, and with softer pads, may be all you need.

Have you ever used 3m Ultra Fine/Fina finishing compound ? If so, this would be a great jeweling product if you are already familiar with it.

There are other compounds in the meguiars 105 range that are German and work easier, but I am basing this info on what you said you already had.

I also have gone from 6" + pads to the 5" pads exclusively on all compounding/finishing work I do except for Airplanes and big vans, etc..

Smaller pads = easier to control, less product used, less clean up, less price per pad.

I talked about L/C Hydro-tech pads earlier, just those 2 (Cyan and Tangerine) might be all you would need for your projects - the Cyan cuts better than the Orange and maybe event the yellow and finishes down better than the white. and the Tangerine cuts better than the white and finishes down better than the black pads.

If you want to see pics of what Meguiars 105 and purple foam wool can do to a couple of Jet Black M5's, look at my website pics at dansautodetailing.com
I used meguiars 105, with purple foam wool to cut the damage, then meguiars 205 to finish. There are some 50/50 shots of the M5's in progress further down in my pics there. All Rotary power work, no high speeds, sling, dusting, etc..

Good luck, your weather makes me ill ! :)
Dan F
 
While a rotary may save some time for your initial correction it will probably not be necessary after that. Unless you have a large budget it is likely overkill. You can get the same results with a DA with a little patience. I recommend starting with a few orange, a few white and a few black LC pads in 5.5". That should cover the majority of what you need. A red or gold pad for your LSP and you should be good for now. Products can be a little more difficult to recommend because they can be paint dependant. Something like Meg's 105 will correct well. For a medium polish I like Menzerna Power Finish and 85rd for final Polish on dark colors. There are dozens of products that are interchangeable at each level of cut. It is simply a matter of preference.

You will quickly find yourself wanting to try all sorts of different combos in time.
 
First welcome to the forum! I'm going to cherry pick a few things from your posts and see if I can offer any additional help or advice.


I am looking for Process, Pad, & Product guidance/recommendations as I stopped detailing before foam pads came to the market and I am intending on getting back in to it so I can do my own cars.
Click to expand...

Its very hard to offer specific processes because there each paint is so unique, not only with what is wrong with it, but also how hard or soft it is, or how your technique may vary.

I learned on a high speed rotary with an 8 in wool pad, then did multi-step hand polishes with a final coat of carnuba sealer wax. I probably did 18-20 cars with the the rotary/wool pad set so I think the rotary is the choice for me to perform corrections with VS. the DA process that I've read about (but I could be wrong).
Click to expand...

I am an a rotary guy myself, or at least I was, and with today's polishes and pads (and education) it is possible to get a 100% hologram free, swirl free finish on most paint finishes.

From doing a little research I think I should go with a Makita 9227C for a rotary to do heavy cutting. And possibly a Porter Cable 7424 XP for a DA to do mid-step polishing and final glossing/jeweling.
Click to expand...

The Makita is a great rotary polisher (for me). Much like an artist with a paint brush their are a lot of intangibles that go into rotary polishing. How well does the machine fit you, does it feel balanced, how smooth it run... The Makita seems to be one polisher that most detailers really enjoy using and was my personal favorite until I used the Flex PE14-2-150.

The cars I am doing are and I want a deep gloss/shine on both;
1) 2007 Toyota 4 Runner, Black
2) 2004 Dodge Ram 2500, metallic charcoal gray
(Not sure what the paint process/qualities of these vehicles are)
Click to expand...

It's hard to say what type of process or quality each posses. Even cars of the same model, same color, built the same year, in the same factory can have wildly different paint systems. Factor in age and conditions and your guess is literately as good as mine.

This is why we always recommend starting with a test spot. That is work up a small section of your paint, approximately 2 x 2', starting with the least aggressive polish/pad combination and inspect the results. If that doesn't get you where you are going fast enough you can increase the cutting action of the pad/polish and see if that removes the defects and restores the gloss. By starting with the least aggressive polish/pad first and moving more aggressive you can dial in the process that works for your paint. Once you find the combination that works best for your paint system then you can repeat that process over the entire car.

Process?:
From the "Old Days" I assume it is a 4 or multi-step process as follows:
1) Heavy cutting
2-A Heavier polish
2-B Lighter Polish/swirl remover
3) Final gloss polish/finish or what you are calling jeweling?
4) Hand wax /final coating or sealing?
(If I am wrong please give your recommendations)
Click to expand...

While the newer abrasives in polishes allow for fewer steps to some degree, the principal is the same. Use the least aggressive method to remove the defects and the follow with finer and finer steps until the paint is fully refined.
If the paint is easy to polish and in good shape you may only need one machine polishing step, if the paint is really worn or has deeper defects you may need multiple steps (progressively going finer).

Jeweling is a term for final polishing, the same basic principle. The foal of that step is remove any microscopic defects or very minor swirls and impart a perfect shine to the paint. When you look at the paint in the sunlight you it should look like you just opened it in a can, no scratches, swirl marks, or other gloss robbing defects.

If you guys could correct/recommend my process and fill in the blanks on tool(s), pad9s), & product(s) that would be great.
Click to expand...

Sticking with a rotary polisher I would start recommend getting the following polishes:

Compound: Meguiar's Ultra Cut Compound M105 or Poorboy's World Master Cut Super Cut Compound

Meguiar's M105 is the latest in abrasive compounds and delivery good cutting with a really nice finish. It's work times are shorter then traditional compounds and it is unique in its application. For something more traditional, Poorboy's makes a great compound. It doesn't have quite the cutting power of the Meguiar's but is easy to work with.


Medium Polish/Swirl Remover: Menzerna Super Intenstive Polish PO83 creates a nice finish and removes severe defects or Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover 3.0

Either polish works great, has a long work time, and produces a really nice finish. The Wolfgang is a little easier to wipe off IME.


Final Polish:Menzerna PO85rd Final Polish or Wolfgang Finishing Glaze 3.0

Again, the same as above.


As for pads, again pad size and type is really a preference and great suggestions have been made so far.

(Of course I am planning on starting with a good wash and clay.)
Click to expand...

This is a great choice. I would also recommend starting your rotary polishing on a junk panel just to get the feel of rotary polishing and posting any questions on this forum. I wouldn't jump back into it, it is one of those things were a little patience can go a long way.
 
Better is always hard. The Griot's Garage has more power which helps in correction and is similarly priced. It is heavier and slightly bigger, though. I have both and use on most details. The PCXP is great for the smaller areas.
 
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