Outch ! ... something bad happened :( *Clay bar accident?*

R

resek

New member
Hi Everyone,


 


I had decided to detail my car (Subaru WRX 2012) because the last time I took care of it was 1 week before my son was born (June 3rd lol).


Since then, I had it car washed (touchless) only 1 time and it was before Christmas Holidays.


At that time, I noticed (obviously) a lack ... a BIG LACK of protection. No beading, no water sheeting .. N-O-T-H-I-N-G.


 


I was a little bit sad about the condition of the car, so I promised myself that during the Holidays, I would wash it, clay it and protect it.


 


So today was the big day.


I went to the touchless car wash to remove the most dirt as possible (I live in Quebec, so it's not necessary to say that our cars get pretty dirty in a short lap of time).


Then, I parked it in the garage and I washed it with ONR and the 'Garry Dean wash method'.


I then proceeded to clay the hood. I wiped off the clay lube and suddenly found that :


 








 


The web swirls here are kinda 'normal' cause of the snow broom but the 'marrings' around the light is quite noticeable.





 


Now I was very disappointed. I thought at first sight it was maybe because of my clay bar. So I used a brand new Ricardo clay on a little spot near the sunroof and it did the same thing.


 


The whole hood + fender are like in the pictures :(


I decided to make a quick 50/50 polish spot just to see if it would be easy to polish away.


I used a PC + black pad + PO85RD (I know it's not an aggressive approach, but I just wanted to touch base).


Here are the results:











 


I think it turned out not that bad after that almost not abrasive at all approach.


 


 


So in the end, did my clay bar did that? I mean ... it has to be the clay bar, because after my ONR wash, those 'marrings' (can we call this marring?) were definitely not there.


Do I need to conclude that I cannot clay bar my Subaru because of the fail Subaru clear coat?


 


Let me know your thoughts guys.


Thanks in advance!


 


Jeff


 


 


 
 
Yes, that was from your claybar. Medium to aggressive clay will in fact induce marring on the paint. Even a light clay bar will mar soft paint sometimes. Don't sweat it, this is normal....we all learn this the hard way!
 
Yes.  Very normal on soft paint.  Could possibly be avoided or reduced by using more or better lube and a lighter touch when claying.
 
resek- Sorry to hear about the marring, glad you got it sorted out.


 


(FWIW, I myself consider "marring" to be an umbrella-term for any kind of scratch/swirl/etc., that is, anything that's a "gouge or cut" in the surface.)


 


When claying, remember that once the clay picks up a speck of abrasive stuff it becomes sandpaper.  So you have to *really* make certain that the surface is clean before you clay (get rid of the loose stuff) and you have to inspect/knead/replace the clay quite often; some of us fanatics might only move the clay an inch or so before doing something!  Yeah, sounds nutty, huh?!?


 


It also looked to me like there was a lot of clay residue left on the finish.  Maybe you need to use more lube (I use a *LOT* of it).  Also remember that the lube is supposed to be a film between the clay and the paint; the clay doesn't really touch the paint directly, it floats along on the lube until it bumps into something that's stuck on the paint, which it then shears off.


 


Eh, if the clear is very soft (my Subies weren't all that bad, but that was a while ago), you might want to just skip the clay and use a chemical decontamination as needed (I love ValuGard's "ABC").


 


Oh, and that snow broom (IIRC they spell it some cutesy way like "Snow Brum") is sure messing up your paint IMO.  I only use mine on rentals and service loaners, but I understand that in some cases you just gotta do what you gotta do (could you try leavng a thin film of snow on the paint, only clearing off the topmost 90% or something?  Easier said than done I know).
 
It definitely looks like lubrication problem.



I use ONRww at wash dilution, and it works great for me.


 


I have always like the "hydroplane" description of how the clay bar


should move over the surface.  If it isn't gliding over water, then you


are doing something wrong. 


 


Subarus are notorious for soft paint.  My whole family owns Forestors.


 


If it did this much damage to your paint, I wonder if something else was going on.
 
Prime example of why someone should inspect a test area before claying a whole car. Know what you're getting into. By nature, as Accumulator noted, clay will sandwich contaminants and you just have to do the best you can to keep the surface clean.
 
Accumulator said:
resek- Sorry to hear about the marring, glad you got it sorted out.


 


(FWIW, I myself consider "marring" to be an umbrella-term for any kind of scratch/swirl/etc., that is, anything that's a "gouge or cut" in the surface.)


 


When claying, remember that once the clay picks up a speck of abrasive stuff it becomes sandpaper.  So you have to *really* make certain that the surface is clean before you clay (get rid of the loose stuff) and you have to inspect/knead/replace the clay quite often; some of us fanatics might only move the clay an inch or so before doing something!  Yeah, sounds nutty, huh?!?


 


It also looked to me like there was a lot of clay residue left on the finish.  Maybe you need to use more lube (I use a *LOT* of it).  Also remember that the lube is supposed to be a film between the clay and the paint; the clay doesn't really touch the paint directly, it floats along on the lube until it bumps into something that's stuck on the paint, which it then shears off.


 


Eh, if the clear is very soft (my Subies weren't all that bad, but that was a while ago), you might want to just skip the clay and use a chemical decontamination as needed (I love ValuGard's "ABC").


 


Oh, and that snow broom (IIRC they spell it some cutesy way like "Snow Brum") is sure messing up your paint IMO.  I only use mine on rentals and service loaners, but I understand that in some cases you just gotta do what you gotta do (could you try leavng a thin film of snow on the paint, only clearing off the topmost 90% or something?  Easier said than done I know).
Click to expand...


 


I do think the surface was clean before claying, I think I did a nice wash.


I didn't use that much Lube. The bar was always sliding, it's not like I was rubbing it and sometime it stucked because of not enough lube but after reading your post, I do think I could have use more Lube.


 


I would like to not use my snow broom, but we almost have snow 2-3 times/week here, so I don't have choice. Unfortunately, I think I will always have that swirls problem here unless I store the car during winter, but who would store a Subaru? lol


 


 
David Fermani said:
resek - what did you use for a clay lube?
Click to expand...


 


I used Clay Magic :


88256.jpg
 
Not sure if this is still current. However there was a time when all clay

was made by clay magic because of a patent dispute.

Just sounds like lack of lube.
 
Any and all clay will mar the surface. How noticeable the maring is will depend on how soft the paint is and how hard the contact stress is. Clay alternatives have the same issue.

I would not clay unless a polish is planned to clean it up. With products easily available like tarminator and ironx, the finish care decon or the abc, there is no need for heavy claying anymore. Once sealed up there should be little need for frequent clay, other than during the yearly polish touch up.

Regardless, this looks like a typical soft black clay marring on a surface that went too long between decon. Some of that smearing could be clay transfer, which happens with some filthy paints. I had a car I could not even clay becuase it was so dirty, and I suspected it had some stupid silicone sealant on there as well. Finish Care Decon did the trick, clay worked as expected after that.
 
jlb85 said:
Any and all clay will mar the surface. How noticeable the maring is will depend on how soft the paint is and how hard the contact stress is. Clay alternatives have the same issue.


 
Click to expand...


Thank you! I've seen some people claim that they net ZERO marring when they clay/towel. I just cannot comprehend how that is possible? Clay is an abrasive medium after all. 
 
Eh, I clay all the time (Sonus SFX and Smart Clay) and it hardly ever mars the paint.  At least not to an extent that I can discern under any of my lighting sources even with magnification (and that's saying something).  But then it takes me many minutes to clay even a small panel and it's tedious, almost nerve-wracking work the way I do it.  I'm so gentle that it doesn't even come *close* to compromising my LSP; I'm basically just "claying the LSP clean".


 


I don't really clay "bare paint" very often; it things get to that point I'll do a chemical decontamination instead.


 


When I did get clay-induced marring (as per Resek's experience) I was using more aggressive clays and I was doing it "normally", i.e., moving the clay a few inches before kneading, using less lube, using a little bit of pressure.  Which yeah, I sometimes do along *with* the chemical decontamination when I get a new-to-me vehicle.  Heh heh, I *have* marred the [crap] out of a few vehicles that way, and it's not like I was claying in an especially aggressive manner, more like the way I suspect most people do it.


 


But anyhow...


 


Yeah, getting the surface, especially a bare-paint surface, clean enough to avoid the "clay turned to sandpaper"-type marring is tough!  The same stuff you're trying to get transferred to the clay is what will cause the marring.  If the clay picks up a speck of something abrasive in the first inch of a three-inch motion, you'll get two inches of marring.
 
Thanks everyone for your opinion/help, I appreciate it :)


If I ever clay again, I'll make sure to have a lot of lube and watch carefully my bar.
 
Lexi65- It's a three-step wash process.


 


A- A very alkaline wash, like a super-shampoo


B- An acidic wash (really gets the ferrous contamination, a lot better than clay)


C- A neutral, "regular" shampoo to finish up


 


This stuff gets the contamination out of the pores/microfissures/etc. of the paint and it *neutralizes* the contamination so it doesn't keep eating away at your paint.



Easy as can be- Wet down car and just wash with a mix of A and water.  Rinse.  Wipe vehicle down with B and let dwell (in really nasty cases you can agitate the surface with clay or a bug sponge while it dwells).  Rise.  Wash with a mix of C and water.  Rinse and dry.  Done.  Really, *really* effective. 


 


Google up ValuGard (yeah, cutesy spelling is correct) and check out their site.  All the major automakers endorse this system and for good reason.
 
Accumulator -- The ValuGard website states that you can do "10-15" vehicles with the ABC Kit which doesn't make sense to me. Part A needs to be mixed 16 oz per gallon of water so even if you can wash the entire car with 1 gallon of mix that's only 8 washes out of a kit (128 oz of part A) and less if you need more than a gallon of mix per car. For Part B they say to use 12 oz in the dispensing bottle and apply to the entire car--even if you can cover all surfaces with 12 oz that's only 11 vehicles out of the gallon.

Can you talk a little about how application goes in real life?? In your experience how many vehicles can you get out of one kit?? Thanks!!
 
Thomas Dekany said:
The color looks black/blue, so naturally everything will show on it. Next time get a silver color! :D
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It's black lol


But I'll never get a silver car, trust me.


 


But my 1st color choice was white ... and go figure out why I changed my mind for black :(


I'm still questioning myself after 2 years lol
 
David Fermani said:
Thank you! I've seen some people claim that they net ZERO marring when they clay/towel. I just cannot comprehend how that is possible? Clay is an abrasive medium after all. 
Click to expand...


I concur. The moment debris or contaminates harder than the clear(even contaminates not as hard can as well) get rubbed on the paint it mars to some degree. It doesn't mean it has to look like a disaster zone after claying, but it will be either minor or major. To say it won't mar at all is fallacy. 


 


Detailing cars with clay can be done with or without claying depending on the application. But I prefer to polish cars if I clay them.
 
Silver, black....clearcoat is clearcoat if you *really* want to be particular about this stuff ;)  Now white, OK...I gotta say that I can put up with some stuff on my white Crown Vic that'd drive me nuts on my silver vehicles.


 


resek- Heh heh, people sometimes remind me that I said I'd never own anything but black. 


 


Jean-Claude- Eh, if it passes a rigorous inspection with the SunGun in a dark room, that's good enough for me.  So I'll politely disagree with the "fallacy" position.  But [repeat all that "the way I do it..." stuff].


 


pwaug- Aw gee, I'm afaid I can't even begin to guess how many cars you'll get out of the ABC kit :(  I simply never paid any attention to how much stuff I was using and I don't ABC all that often (generally only when I get a new-to-me vehicle or my maybe twice-per-decade details for others).  Sorry, I can see where it'd be a significant point for most people.


 


In practice the stuff works well, quick and easy.  On *really* bad vehicles (that white Crown Vic looked dark gray and the chalky oxidation was simply awful) I go agitate both the "A" and "B" with their Bug Sponge, and on really rust-bloomed vehicles I've agitated the "B" with clay (sure eats up the clay fast).  But those were extreme cases, usually it's just doing a few washes in sequence.  The "B" doesn't flash/dry all that fast so keeping the vehicle wet with it has never been an issue (even on big SUVs/etc.).


 


If he doesn't chime in on this thread, get hold of Ron Ketcham and talk with him about this.  He's a genuine expert on ValuGard's line and he's addressed the "is it worth it"/etc. topics before.
 
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