Okay Newbie needs advice

hjscm

New member
Okay so here i go. first off i washed my car with dawn liquid soap. to remove the old waxes i had on there which was a lot. then i followed by zaino car wash. i then clayed the car. i used a PC with griots machine polish #2 with orange pad on the swirl marks i wanted gone. got most of them but still some little ones left. i then finished with machine #3. once this was al done i waxed with griots carnuba wax. then i sprayed zaino #8 and wiped down. then went to griots best of show wax. then again with zaino #8. car looks good but not good enough. about 5 months ago i did almost the same thing but put about 5 coats of zaino on it. looked pretty good. just ran out and need more. my questions are what other products should i try? and is this workflow good? think i need a bigger bite on the machine polish to remove more swirls.



thanks for the help
 
hjscm- Welcome to Autopia!



If you get the paint good enough, the Zaino oughta work fine for you.



I've always been less-than-impressed with Griot's waxes and ditto for their Machine Polishes. But the polishes are, IMO, better than the waxes.



I'd stick with the Zaino if you like it and concentrate on the prep.



The Machine Polish #2 is pretty mild, guess you haven't tried the #1. It's not all that aggressive either.



Griot's Machine Polishes work a *lot* better if you use a more aggressive application method, and the PC usually requires a 4" pad setup to do serious correction anyhow, so I'd put that at the top of your list: a small backing plate, some 4" pads in a) orange (light cutting- note that other companies' orange pads are much more aggressive than the Griot's ones), b) green Cyclo Brand or white Lake Country or Sonus brand (polishing, sorta like the Griot's orange), and c) a milder polishing/finishing pad (e.g., Cyclo brand white, Sonus brand blue).



If the Griot's Machine Polishes don't do it even with the 4" pads, you can always try a different brand of polish, there are a lot of good ones on the market these days and IMO most are more effective *and* user-friendly than the Griot's.



Note that even with 4" pads, doing correction via PC is long, hard work. Going over a panel 6-8 times might not even be a good *start*. And IME you can go over a panel a zillion times with the Griot's #2/Griot's orange and still hardly do any correction.
 
Thanks for the help. so what would be faster than a PC? i don't mind buying new things.

i am going to order some pads i guess from sonus. and also i will get some new polishes to get me going. my truck is 3 years old with 120,000 miles and dark blue so i can practice on that,



again thanks for taking the time to help
 
I think you're using way to much product/product layers. If you need that much, it must be a really poor product and you should switch. Besides, the real shine comes from the prep, not umpteen layers of LSP product. If your LSP product supports layers, two is sufficient to ensure good coverage. After that, you might consider a SOWO product every 2-3 washes just to 'kick it up a notch'.
 
i keep looking at the topoftheline web site and i am very confused on what to get. should i buuy a cyclo? and then confused by what pads and polishers to get. this is getting more confusing to me. i will keep looking and report back



thanks
 
hjscm said:
i keep looking at the topoftheline web site and i am very confused on what to get. should i buuy a cyclo? and then confused by what pads and polishers to get. this is getting more confusing to me. i will keep looking and report back...



Much as I love my Cyclos, I *think* you'd do better to:



1) Keep the PC, but get some orange and green 4" pads for it. Using both systems back-to-back yesterday, the PC/4" was more aggressive than the Cyclo (if less pleasant to use)



2) Buy a Metabo rotary (or a Makita rotary, I can't decide if I like the Makita or the Metabo better but I think the Metabo...) or maybe a Flex. Get backing plates for two sizes of pads: ~6" pads and ~3.5" pads (*NOT* 4", you need the smaller plate for this one, see #4 below). If I had to flip a coin with *your* money, I'd go with the Metabo



3) Get some LC brand Purple Foamed Wool ("PFW") pads in both 6.5" and 3.5" (that's why you need the smaller backing plate ;) ) These are *MUCH* safer on the rotary than are foam pads and IMO the rotary/PFW is even safer than aggressive 4" pads on the PC (but won't finish out as well, so get the stuff for the PC too)



4) Get some easy-to-master products in strong and mild strengths. I recommend 1Z Intensive (aggressive) and 1Z High Gloss (mild). Note these are different from my usual recommendations; that's because I'm considering the rotary. Sources: Welcome to Exceldetail.com! or Aloha & Welcome to Our Oasis for All Your Auto Detailing, Auto Detailing Supplies, Auto Detailing Equipment, Auto Detailing Products, & Auto Detailing Accessories for all your Automobile Detailing



5) Consider other wool pads and the Edge system for the rotary. The above recommendations are based on my usual approach of doing the heavy correction via rotary and then switching to a PC (or in my case, usually the Cyclo) for the medium and finish polishing.



Of course you could go off the deep end the way I did and get a few rotaries, a pair of PCs, and a pair of Cyclos (and I still think about buying *other* polishers too), but then I'm a tool nut.



(please excuse any typos, doing this fast...)
 
okay that helps so i am going to get a rotary. and then do heavy corrections with that and then move to the PC for the final polish and then on to the wax stage. that sounds like a plan.



thanks for clearing that up for me. now just got to decide which products to use. think about menz. seems like a lot of people here are happy with them. and finish with zaino.



thanks again
 
menzerna SIP/IP, Menzerna 106ff/FPII

megs 83, megs 80

clearkote red moose glaze, danase wet glaze, one grand omega glaze

carnuba wax of choice - lotts like natty's blue, p21s, pinnacle souveran

spray wax - optimum car wax



for the maintainence details, use a good one step detail every other month or so...optimum poliseal, megs 66 come to mind...and I say every other month because I dont like to take 3 hours just to wash my car...so when it gets washed once a week, it sees ONR and your normal routine...some people spend too long trying to keep their car perfected even though its their daily driver - doesnt make sense to me, but to each his own, I would just rather be doing something else with my time...
 
oh and you are fine with the PC...just make a couple passes with the orange pad and your compound, then two with the finer polish, then glaze it, then wax it...
 
hjscm, welcome to your new addiction. :)



A few things you might want to consider... Hopefully, it'll take some of the confusion out of all this.



Until recently, most people (including Accumulator and myself) would adamantly recommend that new guys stay away from the rotary, and learn polishing on a DA (like your PC) style machine. However, I really think that it is possible to learn the rotary right off the bat, as long as your are careful and use common sense. Keep in mind that the rotary is a *powerful* tool. MUCH MUCH MUCH more so than the PC. It is capable of ripping the clear coat clean off your car, and melting through plastic covered surfaces before you even realize what's happening. I'm not trying to scare you off, just make you realize that you *must* be careful and use common sense when using the rotary at *all times.* OK, safety disclaimer done. Let's get to it.



Get yourself a good rotary. I kinda differ a bit from Accumulator on rotary preferences. Primarily that I really like the Flex 3403 over the Metabo. However, the most popular rotary by far is the Makita 9227. Do some searching here on Autopia for posts on the different brands of rotaries, and make an informed decision for yourself.



Buy a six inch rotary backing plate, like this...http://www.autopia.org/shopping/product/6-inch-Hook-Loop-Rotary-Flexible-Backing-Plate.html



Buy a small rotary backing plate like this: Rotary Flexible Backing Plate- Manufactured by Lake Country just for rotary polishers. Hook and loop backing plates for your makita 9227, Dewalt 849. it's part number LC-43-095 down at the bottom of the page.



Buy at least four 6.5" Lake Country (LC) Purple Foamed Wool Pads (PFW), like this: Foamed Wool 65 inch PolishingBuffing Pad - Buffing and Polishing Pads - Autopia Shopping Network :: Detailing Products and Supplies



Buy at least two 3.5" LC PFW pads, like this: Foamed Wool 35 inch Buffing Polishing Pad - Buffing and Polishing Pads - Autopia Shopping Network :: Detailing Products and Supplies



Buy an Edge 2000 rotary adaptor, like this: Edge 2K Drive Adapter 58 Thread - Buffing and Polishing Pads - Autopia Shopping Network :: Detailing Products and Supplies



Buy at least two Edge 2000 6" double sided white finishing wool pads, like this: E2K Lambs Wool 6" Final Finish



Buy some Menzerna Intensive Polish: Menzerna Intensive Polish PO 91E - Paint Polish - Autopia Shopping Network :: Detailing Products and Supplies



Buy some Menzerna PO106FF Nano Polish: Menzerna Nano Polish PO 106 - Paint Polish - Autopia Shopping Network :: Detailing Products and Supplies



Buy some Menzerna Finishing Polish II (also known as Micro Polish): Menzerna Micro Polish, Menerna PO 87MC, Menzerna Polish,



Buy a pad spur, like this: Duo Spur Wool & Foam Pad Cleaning Tool: Scrub dirty pads clean with this multi-pupose cleaning tool!



Now there are *alot* of alternatives to the pads, polishes, polishers, backing plates, etc. that I have listed above. However, there is a method to my madness; I'm trying to keep this as easy, safe, and non-confusing as possible.



Now let's learn how to use the rotary. Wash and dry the hood of your car. Put the Edge 2k adaptor on your rotary, then attach one of the edge 2k white finishing wool pads. Now apply an "X" of Finishing Polish II across the pad. Now, without turning the rotary on, put the pad on your hood and make a box about 1.5' by 1.5'. Now fill in the box with the polish until it's evenly distributed throughout the box. Set your rotary RPM to 1000 max. Even lower if your rotary will go slower. Place the pad on the paint, and do not use any more pressure than just the weight of the rotary. Try to balance the weight on the pad so that it is equally distributed across the pad. If you have more weight on one side than the other, the machine will try and move one direction by itself (more on this in a minute.) Making sure you have a good hold on the rotary, squeeze the trigger, which of course will start the pad rotating. Now *very slightly* move the handle (the handle with the trigger) up. VERY SLIGHTLY. The rotary will now try to move one direction all by itself. Lower the handle until it stops. Now VERY SLIGHTLY lower the handle a bit more. It will now go the other direction all by itself. When you find the neutral position, the rotary will not move by itself; the weight will be distributed evenly across the pad. This is what you want. One golden rule: NEVER ALLOW A SPINNING PAD TO *EVER* BE STATIONARY ON YOUR PAINT. Always keep the pad moving. This is *critical*. Now at this point, we are not worried about attempting any paint correction or polishing, just learning how to use the rotary. Now, go up to the upper left hand corner of your box of polish. Slowly (but not *too* slowly.. it's kind of subjective) move the polisher left to right until you hit the other side of your polish box. You've just completed what I call a "row". Now move the pad straight down to start a new row. Now go right to left until you hit the other side of the polish box, then move down, and start another row. Repeat this until you have hit the bottom right corner of your polish box. You have now completed one "pass". Continue to make passes through your polish box until the polish goes completely clear, or until it starts to dry, whichever occurs first. Hopefully, the polish will go clear before it starts to dry. At this point, you are ready to stop the buffer and remove the polish residue. This is called completing one "application". Repeat the above procedure (starting with applying the X of polish to the pad), until you are dead comfortable using the buffer in this manner. Don't worry about removing too much clear; you could buff using this pad/polish/speed for weeks non-stop without removing too much clear. Just keep at it until you're comfortable. Again, don't bother to check your work as far as correcting or polishing goes, you are learning the buffer, nothing more. You will want to "spur the pad" occasionally, too. Just place the wheels against the pad, spin the pad up to 1k rpm, and move the wheels back and forth from the center out to the edge. This will help to clean used polish out of the pad.



Now that you have the basics down, remove the Edge 2k adaptor from your machine, and put the larger of the two backing plates on, then center and place a 6.5" LC PFW pad on the backing plate. *Centering pads on the plate is crucial* take the time to make sure it's perfectly centered. Now place an X of Menzerna Intensive Polish on the pad, and repeat the application procedure. After each application, check to see how much correction has been accomplished. This is a very safe pad/polish combination, so don't be surprised if you haven't made much progress on correcting defects or removing swirls. That's ok, you're just starting out. Repeat the application process until you are happy with the amount of defects and swirls removed. You can use the smaller PFW pad and backing plate for smaller areas that you can't do with the larger pad. Again, don't be surprised if it takes you *alot* of applications. Later on, you can work with more aggressive pad/polish combinations, but for now, let's just keep it simple and safe. Stay with the PFW/IP combo until you're dead comfortable with it. Also, once you're comfortable, in addition to the weight of the buffer, you can start to apply *a little* pressure. Again, this is kind of subjective. A pound or two of additional pressure is a pretty good starting point. The more pressure you apply, the greater the heat will build up, the greater the risk of burning/damaging your paint, so again, *be careful*. More pressure also equals greater correction.



Now that you have corrected the paint, you're ready to polish it. Just repeat the first process we talked about with the FPII until you are happy with the outcome. When you get more comfortable, switch to using the PO106FF. It's much faster, but it can be harder to use. If you have problems with it, just go back to the FPII.



Congratulations, you've just used a rotary buffer for the first time. :)



Once again, there are *many* different pads/polishes/backing plates, etc, and each has their advantages/drawbacks. I *highly* recommend that you stay with the products recommended above, as the combination of them (and keeping the rotary at or below 1000 RPM) is *very* safe. Once you get the machine down, go nuts; buy all the pads and polishes you want, but please take my word on this, and stay with what's recommended above until you've learned.



Check out this thread...http://www.autopia.org/forum/machine-polishing/106093-unbelieveable-rotary-polishing-guide.html for a phenomenal guide to rotary polishing by one of the very best. *Well* worth the time to read, start to finish, numerous times.
 
well i really thank you guys for all the info. i am going to the online store to order everything and as soon as it comes i am going to test out on my work truck. i will post some before and after shots of the hood. if all goes well then i will work it into my other cars. but they are new so don't need the rotary just the pc i think with mild polish.
 
hjscm said:
thanks for clearing that up for me. now just got to decide which products to use. think about menz. seems like a lot of people here are happy with them. and finish with zaino.



Check out the recent thread on Menzerna vs. 1Z. I'm on the 1Z side of that fence myself but plenty of people like Menzerna.



If you get the Menzerna 106FF, be *SURE* to work it properly and do a Prepsol/IPA wipe to make sure things are as nice as you think they are, lest you have some surprises emerge later.
 
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