Nitrogen in tires

C

CharlesW

The Rainmaker
Since this subject has been kicked around a little recently, I thought it deserved a thread of its own.

Some comments:
1. Air is already 78% nitrogen.
2. If air leaks out of a tire faster than nitrogen, then what is left must be mostly nitrogen. Natural nitrogen changeover.
3. Studies seem to indicate that the difference in pressure caused by leakage is about 1 pound a year less with nitrogen.
4. Temperature caused variance in pressure is reduced in nitrogen filled tires, but there is some question if that is due to the nitrogen being dry whereas the compressed air usually contains a great deal of moisture. Many feel the moisture is a major cause of that fluctuation. Possibly dry air would have the same results.
5. Because the nitrogen is dry, there is less corrosion of wheels since neither moisture or oxygen are present.
6. It seems that the most of the other claims are either a little far-fetched or at least minimal.
*Cooler running seems to be a fact although not a big factor under the conditions that most passenger car tires experience. It may be due to the lack of moisture as much as any benefit of the nitrogen.
*Ride quality, fuel economy both are affected much more by proper inflation rather than what the tire is inflated with.
*Weight reduction is negligible.
*Less deterioration of the rubber is also a very small difference. Very few tires are replaced because the inside of the tire was damaged by air.

How about some discussion on the subject?


FWIW, I do have nitrogen in the tires on the Grand Prix. It was primarily to prevent wheel corrosion.
We have had two slow leaks between the rim and the bead in the past year. It was a nuisance so I had all 4 tires removed, the wheel rims completely cleaned, the tires remounted and nitrogen used to fill them. The total cost was $60 and only $20 was for the nitrogen charge.
The cost in my case was not representative.The normal price for nitrogen change over is $10 per tire. Tire removal and wheel clean up is usually $15 per wheel. Regular price for the work I had done would have been $100. A cost that probably isn't a good investment for most drivers.
Since it took over 8 years for the problem to crop up, chances are that if I had just cleaned things up and refilled the tires with air, I could have gone another 8 years with no serious problem.
Benefit to me at this time: Hopefully, no more rim/bead leaks.
Drawback: Ugly green valve caps to keep some helpful soul from adding air and compromising the nitrogen.
 
Well Charles you have covered everything so well not much to say other than i like the concept, i do not have nitrogen in any of my rides yet. Not that its a big deal at all but what % is air in tire since it cant be 100% pure unless you pull a vaccum on the tire to remove all air from tire before inflation.
 
I have not used anything but air in my vehicles.
I currently own one that is 24 years old and another that is 38 years old the wheels and tires are fine so my question is how long do you want to keep a vehicle that nitrogen would be needed.
 
atkinsonair said:
Well Charles you have covered everything so well not much to say other than i like the concept, i do not have nitrogen in any of my rides yet. Not that its a big deal at all but what % is air in tire since it cant be 100% pure unless you pull a vaccum on the tire to remove all air from tire before inflation.
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The installer should have equipment that purges the air and replaces it with nitrogen. They do not pull a vacuum which would not only remove the air, but could remove the moisture as well. The process is supposed to leave you with around 95% nitrogen. Since you started with 78% nitrogen, the 95% doesn't sound like it should be difficult to achieve. It also doesn't sound like a great deal of difference.
While I have done it on one vehicle, I'm still somewhat skeptical as to the value to the average driver.
 
We should just start filling tires with helium. Lighter tires, the cars would float over the road better, and we'd all get better gas mileage.
 
black bart said:
I have not used anything but air in my vehicles.
I currently own one that is 24 years old and another that is 38 years old the wheels and tires are fine so my question is how long do you want to keep a vehicle that nitrogen would be needed.
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As I mentioned, my main concern was rim/bead leaks that we have had in the recent past. It only took 8 years for that to occur in my case. I also have 24 year old and 28 year old vehicles that have not had the problem. They still have air in their tires. I only "fixed what was broke". :)
 
JaredPointer said:
We should just start filling tires with helium. Lighter tires, the cars would float over the road better, and we'd all get better gas mileage.
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It is/has been done, but the benefits were even less than with nitrogen.
Some drawbacks were that the helium in compressed or pressurized form such as the 30 psi in a tire has very little buoyancy. I think it is also much more prone to pressure fluctuations due to temperature than air and I also think they it tends to dissipate heat at a slower rate.
 
JaredPointer said:
We should just start filling tires with helium. Lighter tires, the cars would float over the road better, and we'd all get better gas mileage.
Click to expand...

And worse braking.

I was going to put nitrogen in my new tire yesterday, but they talked me out of it, for some of the reasons in the initial post. They showed me an article that had alot of the points from above. I'll still probably have it changed.
 
I recall several years back that Shell was testing certain markets for nitrogen in the tires. The process, if I recall correctly, involved defalating and inflating the tire several times so as to remove as much air as possible and maximizing the nitrogen. I believe the cost for most was prohibitive because of the minimal gain achieved. It was being sold as a safety feature by minimizing leakage over time I believe.
 
Bellydawg said:
I recall several years back that Shell was testing certain markets for nitrogen in the tires. The process, if I recall correctly, involved defalating and inflating the tire several times so as to remove as much air as possible and maximizing the nitrogen. I believe the cost for most was prohibitive because of the minimal gain achieved. It was being sold as a safety feature by minimizing leakage over time I believe.
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It really isn't anything new. (What is?:))
It was kicked around a little back in the 60's and didn't gain a great following. The nitrogen suppliers seem to be getting behind it more this time around.

A word of caution! Having nitrogen in your tires doesn't mean you no longer need to check them regularly. Chances are buying a good tire tester and using it regularly would be a better investment than nitrogen for most of us.
 
I have nitrogen in the tires on both cars. It was only 20 bucks per car so I figure - why not. A friend that works at a tire store recomended it to me, says it helps get more life out of tires since they don't fluctuate as much with temperture changes.
 
Nitrogen inflation for road cars is nothing more than a gimmick. As Charles said, the air we breathe is 78% Nitrogen. The advertising signs always show that Nitrogen is a larger molecle and won't leak out as easily. Well, most of the other gas in the air is Oxygen (21%) which is a larger molecule than Nitrogen, so that's bunk. Water vapor, another large part of air (sometimes) is even bigger.

This all came from racing series where they use really wide bias ply tires. These tires are highly susceptible to expansion due to the extreme temps on the moisture in the compressed air, and actually causes them to gain a measurable increase in circumference, and therefore affects the handling of the car. To minimize this, they use compressed Nitrogen. For repeatability, they use it in racing radials as well. For a narrow, steel belted radial, like a road car tire, this affect is negligible. Save your money.
 
I never used Nitrogen Here but have had my mom and dad use the stuff.The reason is yes at $18.00 per tire who needs the extra cost right.But in the case of people not driving lots of miles and not driving the car everyday it seemed to be a good idea.

Mom gets the car out every other day at best and seemed to have some under inflation issues.New tires last month and nitrogen added not air.After 4 weeks or so they look great no leeks or problems as of yet.Got a 2003 4runner that has 31000 miles on it and it to will be receiving nitrogen.This one sits in the garage with moms car and never gets air pressure checked unless it goes for service.Its going for service next week and I told him to get his tires done also..


Any car that site would be a good candidate for this procedure imho...Like I said mom and dad's cars here have the benefit of never being under inflated ever again a good safety and tire wear problem corrected....:D
 
A word of caution! Having nitrogen in your tires doesn't mean you no longer need to check them regularly. Chances are buying a good tire tester and using it regularly would be a better investment than nitrogen for most of us.
__________________

Charles


Yes you are right,but not in all cases,remember mom and dad...:howdy
 
CARTfan said:
For a narrow, steel belted radial, like a road car tire, this affect is negligible. Save your money.
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... what do you think they use in F1???

If you make friends with one of the techs at COstco you can do the nitrogen in the tires for free. They deflated the tires and filled with Nitrogen and then deflated & refilled again with Nitrogen on all 4 corners. SO I feel better knowing that I am not on PURE nitrogen but my NiTTo 555's are much more consistant, I sometimes drive above local posted speed limits. Sports cars while being very rsponsive tend to benefit from small fixes more so that your moMMies daily driver. :cool:
 
HerKiMMer said:
... what do you think they use in F1???

If you make friends with one of the techs at COstco you can do the nitrogen in the tires for free. They deflated the tires and filled with Nitrogen and then deflated & refilled again with Nitrogen on all 4 corners. SO I feel better knowing that I am not on PURE nitrogen but my NiTTo 555's are much more consistant, I sometimes drive above local posted speed limits. Sports cars while being very rsponsive tend to benefit from small fixes more so that your moMMies daily driver. :cool:
Click to expand...

I keep all of my F1's tires filled with good old #7 on the Periodic Table, N. ;) A little nitrogen today keeps the run flats away. At least that is what my crew chief always says.

I'm always interested in other auto enthusiasts opinions, what differentiates a "moMMies daily driver" from a "Sports Car"? I see moMMies hauling soccer kids to practice in Porsche Cayenne's and 5 Series Beemer's and beyond.
 
HerKiMMer said:
... what do you think they use in F1???
Click to expand...

You're comparing a $3 million racecar to a minivan?:hmmm:


Sure they use nitrgen in F1. The tires reach temps well above the boiling point of water, they are more than twice as wide, only 13" in diameter (therefore they have enormous sidewalls) and are hence much more susceptible to expansion if there were moisture in them. They don't use it cuz it's nitrogen, they use it cuz its DRY.

The air only needs to stay in race tires for an hour max so they certainly don't use it because nitrogen doesn't leak out as fast.
 
Tire Inflation from my Craftsman compressor... FREE
New Toyota Tacoma sticker price for Nitrogen fill...$89
Car Dealers still jerking us around... PRICELESS
 
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