Newbie needs HELP choosing the right polish!

[fins&chrome]

This is all new to me so please help me.



This is my challenge: Got a 50’s classic car, medium blue color SINGLE STAGE paint and looking for the products that will rid me of those light but annoying swirls.

The paint is in pretty good condition and with good sine as it’s been garaged since its restoration about 9 yrs ago. I would also add that the paint is on the soft side. So here goes: I’m planning on getting a PC with appropriate pads (probably a set of 4” and 6”) but where it GETS complicated is knowing which polish to use? The selection is overwhelming. Looking at some of the posts it seems that Menz products, Megs and Optimum are the favorites.

Again, the defects are very minor and you really got to look closely to see them, but under the right light like an incandescent lightbulb...arrrrghhhh, well, you know how I feel. Anyways, I was thinking of starting with either Menz Final finish then ending with Final Polish. Any thoughts?

 

[Accumulator]

This is all new to me so please help me...

Welcome to Autopia!

This is my challenge: Got a 50’s classic car, medium blue color SINGLE STAGE paint and looking for the products that will rid me of those light but annoying swirls.

The paint is in pretty good condition and with good sine as it’s been garaged since its restoration about 9 yrs ago. I would also add that the paint is on the soft side. So here goes: I’m planning on getting a PC with appropriate pads (probably a set of 4” and 6”) but where it GETS complicated is knowing which polish to use?

That sounds like a good approach, but I don't see much use for the 6" pads.



Is the paint lacquer or enamel? Some ss enamels don't respond well to aggressive polishing.

The selection is overwhelming. Looking at some of the posts it seems that Menz products, Megs and Optimum are the favorites.

Again, the defects are very minor and you really got to look closely to see them, but under the right light like an incandescent lightbulb...arrrrghhhh, well, you know how I feel. Anyways, I was thinking of starting with either Menz Final finish then ending with Final Polish. Any thoughts?

Good, you've figured out how to use incandescent light for inspections :xyxthumbs



The Menzerna stuff oughta work OK, though I generally use Meguiar's these days.



Some single stage paints respond *VERY* well to certain Meguiar's products.



Even after the Menzerna polishes, you might want to use some sort of glaze (Meguiar's calls them "pure polishes") before your LSP (Last Step Product, i.e, "wax").

 

[imported_gusbubba]

Sounds like you've got a decent handle on this to begin with.

A light polish is the best place to start...should take care of minor defects on ss paint.



One more thing: you better post pictures of that thing when you're done with it; we're gonna wanna see it!



Good luck......

 

[Dan]

The Menzerna stuff oughta work OK, though I generally use Meguiar's these days.



Some single stage paints respond *VERY* well to certain Meguiar's products.

I agree, the meguiars products are very user friendly, but I will disagree about the pad selection. I would go with the meguiars 6.5 pads. Sure they won't cut as fast, but they a good value and user friendly. ADS has a very nice deal on pad sets as well as sampler sizes of many of the polishes. I don't much experience with single stage paints, so I will leave that to someone else. As has been said, start with the least agressive product and go from there.

 

[fins&chrome]

[quote name='Accumulator']Welcome to Autopia!



That sounds like a good approach, but I don't see much use for the 6" pads.



Is the paint lacquer or enamel? Some ss enamels don't respond well to aggressive polishing.



Thanks for the info! The paint is Acrylic Urethane...so I guess that would make it an enamel right? Is this paint more “sensitive” and difficult to polish?



Also, which Meg products? The 105/205 combo or can I bypass the 105 and go with the 205. Speed of correction here is not important for me...I will be taking my time and spreading it out over months if I have to. My other challenge is that the sheetmetal on these classics offers many obstacles such as curves, ridges, dips and curves everywhere...so I guess 4” pads would come in handy for those situations....and I’m not even talking about the chrome pieces which I’ll have to mask off properly.

 

[Accumulator]

I agree, the meguiars products are very user friendly, but I will disagree about the pad selection. I would go with the meguiars 6.5 pads. Sure they won't cut as fast...

IME the ~6" pads don't cut period. Too much friction, my PCs just "jiggle" with those pads. Not just a matter of cutting fast, they simply don't accomplish much of anything at all, even on my older cars' single stage. OK...if you spend many hours on each panel you can eventually get things done, if the vibration doesn't give you "white finger" nerve damage.



My first PC simply sat in the box until I got 4" pads for it, even the ~5" ones that Griot's used to sell were too big. Compared to the Cyclo it was useless.



While other people seem to get different/better results, I simply *never* have :nixweiss Hence my advice about the smaller pads, I prefer to only advocate approaches that have worked well for me.

Also, which Meg products? The 105/205 combo or can I bypass the 105 and go with the 205. Speed of correction here is not important for me...I will be taking my time and spreading it out over months if I have to...

It's not really a matter of spending time, but rather getting satisfactory results. I've been known to take (literally) months on some of my garage queens myself



I was approaching this a little differently than most cars, and wasn't even thinking about the M105/M205 twins. Rather, I was thinking about a "less than perfection, but still very nice" goal using M80 for most of the polishing (maybe all of it).



In your case I wouldn't want to take off too much paint. And I wouldn't insist on the same kind of "flawless and very sharp" look that I'd go for on a more modern car with basecoat/clearcoat paint. IMO older cars often look better with a "slightly softer" look. As I told a pal whose old Jag showcar I did (to his complete, best-in-class-winning, satisfaction ) "I wasn't trying to make it look like a new Toyota".



The #80 should improve the defects quite a bit. Following that with either their #9 Swirl Mark Remover (which really hides, rather than *removes* such stuff) and/or one of their "pure polishes" (i.e., #3/#5/#7/#81, Deep Crystal Step #2 Polish) should leave things ready-to-wax.

My other challenge is that the sheetmetal on these classics offers many obstacles such as curves, ridges, dips and curves everywhere...so I guess 4” pads would come in handy for those situations....and I’m not even talking about the chrome pieces which I’ll have to mask off properly.

Here's where I might eat my words and say to consider a larger pad after all! It'd work a *LOT* better with a Flex than with a PC (and I do mean *A WHOLE LOT*) but anyhow...



The overhanging outer portion of the larger pad can often fit into tight spots where even a small pad won't work. It's the size/configuration of the machine itself that's the problem, not the size of the pad; the machine's housing bumps into things so the pad can't get where it needs to go. When I did my pal's Jag I would've been utterly SOL without the Flex 3401 for that very reason, even though I have a scad of different pads/polishers. Gotta have the right tool(s) to do certain jobs.



Some of those areas you'll probably have to do by hand anyhow, no matter which machine you use. The Meg's #80 is a pretty user-friendly product by hand, even if it is even more gentle that way.



I *very* seldom worry about masking chrome. Most products made to polish paint are *FAR* too gentle to damage the chrome and all you have to watch is that you don't get excess product under said trim, where it can be a PIA to clean out, or bump the trim in a big way. More likely that an edge/corner of the trim will tear up your pad, which is seldom a big deal. Heh heh, that Jag sure eat up a lot of my pads but they still work OK.



But yeah, if in doubt, or othewise worried, then tape it off using the green 3M tape.

 

[Dan]

Accumulator-



I guess it all has to do with expectations. There are folks around here that say a PC won't do any correction to those who have posted some amazing results. Myself, I have cleaned up after wetsanding with a PC (still not sure why I chose to do that). It is very much slower, probably by a factor of 3 compared to a rotary but it does work. You can get down to bare paint even by hand, so I have no doubt you can by pc. IMO the 6.5 pads are easier to control. While the 4" pads have a place, it just makes the pc feel funny to me. Last but not least, Megs pushes the 6" pads for the beginner, and they are pretty cautious when it comes to recommendations.

 

[Accumulator]

yakky- Yeah, experiences with the PC seem to be all over the map.



A pal of mine cut through the clear on her Benz using one of my PCs and a Meg's 7006 pad so the big pads sure must do *something*! BTW, as Mike Phillips was there when that happened, I've always wondered if her "oops!" was responsible for the Meguiar's admonition to not use 7006 pads via PC :think:

 

[fins&chrome]

Super! Thanks for all this. Now you’ve got me thinking about the Flex machine!

And yeah, BTW I’m not looking for that real high gloss, sharp reflection finish either. It just wouldn’t look right on a ’57 and could even be considered an anachronism! Just lookin’ for a nice smooth, soft gloss MINUS those PIA swirls. Probably a nice soft glowing gloss from a carnuba paste kinda look.

...Sooooo, pad-wise, whad’ya think? Start off with WHITE or GREY to stay on the gentle side of things?

 

[DM101]

The flex is the way to go! You will love it.

 

[Accumulator]

..And yeah, BTW I’m not looking for that real high gloss, sharp reflection finish either. It just wouldn’t look right on a ’57 and could even be considered an anachronism! Just lookin’ for a nice smooth, soft gloss MINUS those PIA swirls. Probably a nice soft glowing gloss from a carnuba paste kinda look...

Exactly :xyxthumbs You and I are of one mind on this



And I think you'll consider the Flex money well spent.

...Sooooo, pad-wise, whad’ya think? Start off with WHITE or GREY to stay on the gentle side of things?

While the conventional wisdom says to start with the mildest approach and only get more aggressive as needed, I'm pretty certain you'll want to do the first step with a polishing pad.



If the ss paint is *black* that might be a different story as that's usually very soft.



I'd use a polishing pad/#80 and see how that goes. If you need more cut there are a lot of options. The #80 almost always finishes out ready-to-wax, even if it doesn't have the *very* sharp reflection of some more modern products.

 

[fins&chrome]

That’s what I’ll do. Wait off a bit, spend a little more and go for the Flex instead.

I was thinking that a larger pad (i.e. such as on the Flex) needed to always lay flat on the surface —*hence never gave any thought of using the pad overhand that much. So I guess, if I keep moving, do not add much pressure and avoid going over panel edges or ridges (which I’d do by hand after)...there shouldn’t be much danger.

Really appreciate the advice!

Will post some pix when I get done.

 

[Accumulator]

..I was thinking that a larger pad (i.e. such as on the Flex) needed to always lay flat on the surface —*hence never gave any thought of using the pad overhand that much. So I guess, if I keep moving, do not add much pressure and avoid going over panel edges or ridges (which I’d do by hand after)...there shouldn’t be much danger..

While there's always the potential for an "oops!", the more you get accustomed to using the Flex the more you'll find you can get away with



If you apply too much pressure with the pad at an angle, you can get interference between the backing plate and the felt ring that's behind it (it's a cushion, there for just this reason) or even the metal housing of the polisher's motor housing. Neither is an automatic disaster but rather a way to gauge whether you're getting close to the very edge of what's OK.



You sound like you have the right mindset to do just fine with the Flex.

 

[scary bill]

I have a PC. I only use it when absolutely necessary for polishing. It is usually used as a wax/sealant/glaze applier. I think you are going in the right direction with the flex. If I didn't have my PC/rotaryI would get a flex, too.



If you do go with M80, it is worth a mention that M82 is a good follow up sometimes. It has just a tad more cut than M9, and leaves a good clean surface behind. M80 on soft paint may leave some micro-marring behind that needs a less abrasive polish to finish out.



I would really look into the glazes Accumulator mentioned (pure polishes), they can add a very wet, deep glow to the paint-especially SS paint.



Good luck with you delve into detailing. BTW we want PICS.

 

[fins&chrome]

Anybody had experience with the Optimum line of polishes on soft SS paint —*more specifically their polish and finishing polish? How does their relative abrasiveness compare to M80 & M#9 for instance or Menz Po85 & Po85RD?

 

[Accumulator]

Anybody had experience with the Optimum line of polishes on soft SS paint —*more specifically their polish and finishing polish? How does their relative abrasiveness compare to M80 & M#9 for instance or Menz Po85 & Po85RD?

I simply *DO NOT* like Optimum Car Polish, the long worktime drives me crazy and man can it leave issues if you don't work it long enough.



Also, it's simply different from the Meguiar's offerings in that it doesn't contain the Meguiar's Trade Secret Oils, which I simply *love* on single stage.

 

[Mike_Phillips]

My other challenge is that the sheetmetal on these classics offers many obstacles such as curves, ridges, dips and curves everywhere...so I guess 4” pads would come in handy for those situations....and I’m not even talking about the chrome pieces which I’ll have to mask off properly.

My favorite body styles to buff out are the classics, compared to many, (not all), but many new cars the classics have much larger and smoother and even flatter panels. Compare the panels on a 1952 Chevy Belair to a Hummer.



Can we ask what it is you're specifically working on?

A pal of mine cut through the clear on her Benz using one of my PCs and a Meg's 7006 pad so the big pads sure must do *something*! BTW, as Mike Phillips was there when that happened, I've always wondered if her "oops!" was responsible for the Meguiar's admonition to not use 7006 pads via PC :think:

Hi Accumulator,



I must have buffed out too many cars in my life as I can't seem to remember this oops as there's been plenty. :nervous:



Regardless that incident had nothing to do with Meguiar's recommendation to no use their foam cutting pads with dual action polishers, it really just has to do with the fact that if a person isn't experienced with a PC and they use a cutting pad and haze their car's clear coat they won't know what to do and might panic instead of either adjusting their pad or chemical choice and/or plan on re-polishing the paint with a less aggressive product to remove the haze. Kind of the better safe than sorry approach.



The recommendation for the new W-7207 foam cutting pads is Meguiar's doesn't recommend them with PC style polishers but if you are going to use one then do a Test Spot first to see how the paint you're polishing is reacting to it before going over the entire car.



The foam formula for the new washable W-7207 foam cutting pads is different and less aggressive than the foam formula for both the W-8000 and the W-8006 pads and I've found it to work really well most of the time. As a long time habit though, if I've never worked on the car before then I always test first.

IME the ~6" pads don't cut period. Too much friction, my PCs just "jiggle" with those pads.

While I agree a smaller pad will always rotate better I've buffed out a ton of cars using 6" pads on PC.



Last night I tried out the new PC 7424XP and I was very impressed with the tool. I was using the 6.5 LC Orange and White pads on a Tahoe and as long as I held the pads flat to the panel there was no problem at all keeping the pads rotating.



I'm going to buff out a black Lexus all day tomorrow and will play with it and the Flex XC3401. Seems everyday if I leave my chair new things to test somehow appear on my desk?



Flex XC3401, PC 7424XP, Flex 3403, the new Dodo Juice Supernatural Wash Mitt aka Wookie's Fist, Dodo Juice Supernatural Shampoo, Dodo Juice Austintacious Soft Wax, and the new LC Gold Foam Ultra Finishing Pad appeared out of nowhere after lunch!



:woohoo:

I prefer to only advocate approaches that have worked well for me.

Them be words of wisdom right there...

I was approaching this a little differently than most cars, and wasn't even thinking about the M105/M205 twins.



Rather, I was thinking about a "less than perfection, but still very nice" goal using M80 for most of the polishing (maybe all of it).

M80 is a tried and true winner for single stage paints, especially antique, original or neglected single stage paints. After the M80 maybe some M205 or stick with the TS oil polishes like M82 or M09 for a follow-up pass. Could be M80 will get the paint to where you want it without the need for a second polishing step.



Do a Test Spot first and let the results of your test spot be your guide.

Also, it's simply different from the Meguiar's offerings in that it doesn't contain the Meguiar's Trade Secret Oils, which I simply *love* on single stage.

I agree. The TS oils Meguiar's has been using since their inception do work really well on single stage paints to really bring out the full richness of color.



Then top with your favorite wax or paint sealant and after that it will be time to take your 50's cruiser for a cruise.



:2thumbs:

 

[DM101]

Are there other products that contain TS oils ??? #7, #81 ????

 

[Mike_Phillips]

Are there other products that contain TS oils ??? #7, #81 ????

Yes. There are all kinds of trade secret ingredients in all company's products and Meguiar's like everyone else doesn't share that type of information with the public outside of when you find it posted in an MSD sheet or if you ask on their forum and they answer the question.



Ever since forums popped up Meguiar's as well as most other companies realized they needed to mind what they release so it's probably harder to find out what's inside the bottle now more than ever.



Back in the days of Lab Sample D when there was a lot of focus as to what was in the bottle one of my Manager's taught me something that I consider fairly important and that's to keep the focus on the performance of the product, not what's inside the bottle.



I know most of the people that hang out on a forum like this are naturally curious as to what's in the bottle but at the end of the day the most important thing is the performance of the product, not the specific ingredients.



All of the pure polishes in their line contain what you could consider the traditional TS oils, that would be M03 Machine Glaze, M05 New Car Glaze, M07 Show Car Glaze and even M81 hand Polish and Deep Crystal Polish. The same can be said about the traditional cleaner/polishes which include M09, M80, M82, and M83.



M01, M02, M04 also contain these TS oils but to what degree who knows.



You would have to ask over on MOL about many of the new SMAT products however as these products are very different than their predecessors and what's inside the bottle that's public knowledge is kept very close to the chest. I'm always just as curios as the rest of you as this is my thing, that said now days I don't know much about what's inside the bottle for new products except for whatever I've posted on the MOL forum and that would always come from Mike Pennington the Director of Training.



For what it's worth, M07 has the richest content of TS oils out of all the pure polishes and M80 has the richest content of TS oils out of the cleaner/polishes.

 

[David Fermani]

Mike - Looks like Meghan scooped up some road kill off the Turnpike and threw it on your desk! What they heck is that thing?