More Suds=Better Cleaning?

C

CharlesW

The Rainmaker
It seems like most of us, (including myself), have somewhat of a hangup about car shampoo needing to have lots of suds.
Why?
I don't think suds clean or lubricate. They don't seem to be necessary in many cleaning products that tackle much tougher jobs than a dirty car.
Low suds laundry detergents seem to do as good a job cleaning clothes as the high suds detergents. Dishwashers do a great job without suds.
Protect All Quick & Easy Wash, Detailers Pride Four-In-One Rinseless Wash & Shine, Optimum No Rinse Wash & Shine are all low/no suds products that have good lubrication and cleaning properties.
So why do we think suds adds anything to the wash process?
I'm pretty sure I have read that soap manufacturers actually add sudsing agents to their products so people have the suds they think they need.
It seems like we have a chemist or two as members, maybe they can explain the reasons.

If we get this one figured out, I would also like to know why we think a wax has to bead to protect.:)

Charles
 
From what I've read, suds in car wash soap is to make people feel good about the soap. Over the years, people associate suds with something beneficial. I believe it is more about marketing than anything scientific in helping the wash process. You listed a number of perfect examples. I remember reading that Meguiar's Soft Gel or Deep Crystal (can't remember) was designed in part, specifically for the consumers who like to see suds.

What is important (I believe) is the lubricity and cleaning agents used in the car wash soap. Meguiar's #00 has zero suds yet is one of the most lubricating delicate washes I have used.

CharlesW said:
If we get this one figured out, I would also like to know why we think a wax has to bead to protect. :)

Charles
Click to expand...

I guess we think we need to see beads for a WAX (not a sealant) in order to somehow measure a guesstimated level of protection due to the surface tension created from the wax compared to a worn out wax or no waxed surface. The characteristics of the beads change (on a freshly washed car) depending on the amount of wax left on the surface.
 
I dont think they do much either, might add a bit of slickness, but only to a point, then I dont think they add anything. My boss said one time, that even though you are cleaning the boat with enough soap. If you cant see the soap then people that are probally watching you probally dont think your doing a good enough job.
 
CharlesW said:
I'm pretty sure I have read that soap manufacturers actually add sudsing agents to their products so people have the suds they think they need.
Charles
Click to expand...

Theres your answer.

I beleive its all a marketing and hype thing.

Word of mouth through out forums can also have alot to do with it, One person can make alot "think" they need suds in order to prevent swirls.

I wash cars just fine when the suds in my bucket have gone away.
 
:bigups That, and suds alow the cleaning agent to cling more to the surface. But with car soaps it really is a matter of you bringing the soap to the car and swiping so its pretty much up for grabs.

When I used QEW on a friends car, he questioned me thinking I was using plain water. Then when I told him what it was, He still questioned if it was enough. So I guess it might actually be intentionally added for that factor.

APC clean a lot better than car soaps and tend not to sud, so this point may actually be valid.

Good Topic.:bigups
 
CharlesW said:
If we get this one figured out, I would also like to know why we think a wax has to bead to protect.:)

Charles
Click to expand...

From what I have read and learned online about waxes and sealants, beading should not really be taken as a sign of protection.

Interesting question about the suds, Charles. :)
 
JaredPointer said:
From what I have read and learned online about waxes and sealants, beading should not really be taken as a sign of protection.

Interesting question about the suds, Charles. :)
Click to expand...
can you continue with that statement and tell us why?
as I feel that when the beading starts to get larger then the wax is losing its durability. I am not saying that there is no protection and maybe its just the oils leaving the wax but it is a guidline for me anyway.
just wondering if you had a conclution?
as far as suds I dont think it matters if your bringing your mitt to the car , but if you are relying on a foam gun then I would think the more foam clinging to your vehicle would be better. just my 1 1/2 cents
 
glen22 said:
can you continue with that statement and tell us why?
as I feel that when the beading starts to get larger then the wax is losing its durability. I am not saying that there is no protection and maybe its just the oils leaving the wax but it is a guidline for me anyway.
just wondering if you had a conclution?
Click to expand...

Sure.

Some waxes don't really have tight beads to begin with.

Some sealants are designed to sheet water instead of bead. (At least that's what I've read :) )

Just from reading online, beading is a sign of surface tension. A new paint job, free of any waxes or sealants will bead quite nicely. So that tells me that just because a car's paint beads water does not mean it is protected.

After I have done some heavy polishing on friend's cars, we washed them to remove all the dusting. They beaded quite nicely, and the polishes were supopsedly filler free. So, no protection there, but yet nice beading.

Some of the nastier looking cars in the parking lot where I work bead when it rains, yet I can fairly assume they have not seen a wax in at least a year or two.

I am sure beading is some indication, but in my book, it's not the sole (or even a high) indicator to me that a car's paint is protected.
 
The beading question probably deseves its own thread since it will stir up considerable debate.
FWIW, I have also read that some LSP manufacturers add a beading agent to their products to fill our "need for beads".
Merchandising is a very interesting and complex field and needs to be to satisfy an interesting and complex market.

Charles
 
yes it is very interesting :) I just wonder though what is our indicator that our sealant or wax is no longer working?
and thanks for the answer to my question Jared, it makes sence :)
 
glen22 said:
yes it is very interesting :) I just wonder though what is our indicator that our sealant or wax is no longer working?
and thanks for the answer to my question Jared, it makes sence :)
Click to expand...

Sorry to "hijack the thread Charles. If you want, since you have the power and all, you could split the thread.

Glen, I don't know a real answer on that one, as it seems that when I have free time at the house, I am always in the garage adding another coat of something. It seems nothing stays on longer than a few weeks. :)
 
JaredPointer said:
Sorry to "hijack the thread Charles. If you want, since you have the power and all, you could split the thread.
Click to expand...
It isn't that you "hijacked" the thread, but IMO, the beading issue deserves a thread of its own to give it an identity for future searches.
Actually, I invited your comments with my even mentioning it in my original post.
The beading/sheeting thing should make for an interesting discussion.:)

Charles
 
JaredPointer said:
Sorry to "hijack the thread Charles. If you want, since you have the power and all, you could split the thread.

Glen, I don't know a real answer on that one, as it seems that when I have free time at the house, I am always in the garage adding another coat of something. It seems nothing stays on longer than a few weeks. :)
Click to expand...
I'm with you Jared I also have no issues cuz I wax often but giving others advice it would be nice to know. Many of my family and others dont wax or put sealants on as often as they should it would just be nice to have a visual guildline you know?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top