Saw these great - really, really super thick MF mitts at a local Restoration Hardware store for $12. Looked like it would be great to wash the car with but then I got to wondering - if you guys reccomend only 100 percent cotton towels and chenille mitts to help prevent scratches and swirls then why don't the synthetic fibers in MF scratch/swirl? Guess I'm just not understanding MF. Can anyone help?
MF Question
- Thread starter Katiescar
- Start date
KAtie I use ther MF mitt from CMA on my truck. I love it. As long as you rinse it often and well you should not have problems...The fear is it will pick up some trash and this trash will not leave the mitt when rinsing it so it could scratch.
I only use this mitt above the molding line and when the truck does not have mud on it. FOr muddy cleanings I rinse the snot out of it then use a cotton chenile mitt then I go over it again with the MF mitt.
I find the MF mitt cleans better with less pressure.
I only use this mitt above the molding line and when the truck does not have mud on it. FOr muddy cleanings I rinse the snot out of it then use a cotton chenile mitt then I go over it again with the MF mitt.
I find the MF mitt cleans better with less pressure.
imported_doug
New member
The "only 100% terry" myth is a hold over from a time before there were no microfiber towels. Microfiber towels' fibers are incredibly fine compared to cotton and do a better job of lifting/absorbing.
The fact is that neither good quality terry or microfiber towels will scratch your car - it is the inevitable stuff underneath them that does. You can scratch a car really, really well if you wipe ANYTHING (even your finger) on it when there is any dirt on the car. Poor quality towels of either type can scratch all by themselves.
The reason I like Microfiber towels better than terry is that I can buff wax off, or dry water, with far fewer "swipes" and still have a streak-free finish. Anything that you can do to reduce the number of swipes it takes to keep your paint pretty is a GOOD THING. Because you have to do more wiping with terry, you will get more scratches.
The fact is that neither good quality terry or microfiber towels will scratch your car - it is the inevitable stuff underneath them that does. You can scratch a car really, really well if you wipe ANYTHING (even your finger) on it when there is any dirt on the car. Poor quality towels of either type can scratch all by themselves.
The reason I like Microfiber towels better than terry is that I can buff wax off, or dry water, with far fewer "swipes" and still have a streak-free finish. Anything that you can do to reduce the number of swipes it takes to keep your paint pretty is a GOOD THING. Because you have to do more wiping with terry, you will get more scratches.
Ahhhh! My loyal followers are increasing in numbers. There was actually a time where some individuals here scoffed at the idea of using or paying a good sum of money for high quality microfiber towels. "Nothing", they exclaimed, "Nothing can be better than cotton towels." Hehe!
And though I do really like the serged Charisma's, its hard not to prefer a good Miracle towel (Magic towel).
And though I do really like the serged Charisma's, its hard not to prefer a good Miracle towel (Magic towel).
G
Guest
Guest
I did the "cd test" with a brand new cd. I had purchased MF towels from YoSteve and really like them, but a lot of guys on other forums were cautioning that MF would scratch your paint. I'm a Zaino distributor and own a lot of very fine Cannon Royal Velvet and even better Cannon Charisma towels. I really worked the cd over with the MF and Cannon towels. By "worked over", I mean I really scrubbed hard with both the MF and Cotton towels to give myself a worse case situation. The end result stunned me, the Cannon towels scratched the CD much worse that the MF towels! Keep in mind that there are lots of different brands and qualities of MF towels and they are showing up in about every kind of store out there, so all I can speak for ones I got from YoSteve.
TortoiseAWD
New member
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' >
<em class='bbc'>Originally posted by RH [/i]
<strong class='bbc'>Also keep in mind that your car is not coated with CD's..... Kinda like giving your dog meds to see how it will affect you...
MF's are great, but CD tests are invalid. [/b]</blockquote>"Invalid" is perhaps too harsh of a word . . . while the CD test certainly won't tell you if a given towel absolutely will/will not scratch clearcoat, it does allow you to compare the relative quality of two towels, as dlw's test indicated (if one towel scratches a CD and another doesn't, which would you rather use on your car?).
No, the testing method isn't perfect, but IMO it's good empirical data that can be had for the cost of sacrificing a $0.30 CD-R, or for free if you have a bunch of AOL disks laying around
Tort
P.S. Some cars <strong class='bbc'>are[/b] coated with CDs (more pictures at http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/1543/) . . .
<em class='bbc'>Originally posted by RH [/i]
<strong class='bbc'>Also keep in mind that your car is not coated with CD's..... Kinda like giving your dog meds to see how it will affect you...
MF's are great, but CD tests are invalid. [/b]</blockquote>"Invalid" is perhaps too harsh of a word . . . while the CD test certainly won't tell you if a given towel absolutely will/will not scratch clearcoat, it does allow you to compare the relative quality of two towels, as dlw's test indicated (if one towel scratches a CD and another doesn't, which would you rather use on your car?).
No, the testing method isn't perfect, but IMO it's good empirical data that can be had for the cost of sacrificing a $0.30 CD-R, or for free if you have a bunch of AOL disks laying around
Tort
P.S. Some cars <strong class='bbc'>are[/b] coated with CDs (more pictures at http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/1543/) . . .
imported_Intel486
New member
Why is the CD testing invalid? I've never done it before but hear it spoken of a lot on these boards. Now someone is saying it is invalid. Why?
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' >
<em class='bbc'>Originally posted by Intel486 [/i]
<strong class='bbc'>Why is the CD testing invalid? I've never done it before but hear it spoken of a lot on these boards. Now someone is saying it is invalid. Why? [/b]</blockquote>
A CD is softer than your car paint. The "theory" that people who "use" the CD test is that if it doesnt scratch a CD, it wont scratch your car. And that is a "valid" point. What is "invalid" is thinking (or stating as fact, as many people do) that if something scratches a CD that it will also scratch your car.
<em class='bbc'>Originally posted by Intel486 [/i]
<strong class='bbc'>Why is the CD testing invalid? I've never done it before but hear it spoken of a lot on these boards. Now someone is saying it is invalid. Why? [/b]</blockquote>
A CD is softer than your car paint. The "theory" that people who "use" the CD test is that if it doesnt scratch a CD, it wont scratch your car. And that is a "valid" point. What is "invalid" is thinking (or stating as fact, as many people do) that if something scratches a CD that it will also scratch your car.
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' >
<em class='bbc'>Originally posted by RH [/i]
<strong class='bbc'>What is "invalid" is thinking (or stating as fact, as many people do) that if something scratches a CD that it will also scratch your car. [/b]</blockquote>
Yup, the CD test is only good for determining what won't scratch your car, but not for what will scratch your car.
Only experimentation with your car for what works will determine if it does scratch it. If you use only stuff on your car that will not scratch a CD (mf, sponge applicator, etc) then you're in good shape too. I use a cotton mitt for washing when I'm not using and MF.
Here's an interesting test though. Scratch a CD with your finger nail, lightly like if you had a spec on your car. The CD holds up suprisingly well. What does that mean? the fingernail is not as "hard" as you think. Now take a synthetic mitt and wipe it across the CD and there you go, scratch city. Just to put things into perspective, sometimes you can't tell by feel which object is inherently harder. Most people do the cheek test for softness. No one would ever think that a synthetic mitt is harder than your finger nail. Ah but it is, on a physical scale, it scratches the CD way more. Just some fiber for thought
<em class='bbc'>Originally posted by RH [/i]
<strong class='bbc'>What is "invalid" is thinking (or stating as fact, as many people do) that if something scratches a CD that it will also scratch your car. [/b]</blockquote>
Yup, the CD test is only good for determining what won't scratch your car, but not for what will scratch your car.
Only experimentation with your car for what works will determine if it does scratch it. If you use only stuff on your car that will not scratch a CD (mf, sponge applicator, etc) then you're in good shape too. I use a cotton mitt for washing when I'm not using and MF.
Here's an interesting test though. Scratch a CD with your finger nail, lightly like if you had a spec on your car. The CD holds up suprisingly well. What does that mean? the fingernail is not as "hard" as you think. Now take a synthetic mitt and wipe it across the CD and there you go, scratch city. Just to put things into perspective, sometimes you can't tell by feel which object is inherently harder. Most people do the cheek test for softness. No one would ever think that a synthetic mitt is harder than your finger nail. Ah but it is, on a physical scale, it scratches the CD way more. Just some fiber for thought
G
Guest
Guest
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' >
Yup, the CD test is only good for determining what won't scratch your car, but not for what will scratch your car.</blockquote>
Hmmm....I guess one can sit and argue all day about whether the "cd test" is scientifically viable or politically correct or whatever. If it shows me what "won't scratch my car" (which seems a lot more useable and relevant to know than what "will scratch my car"), it seems like a heckuva good test to me. I'd run the test on a pumpkin if it helped me find out what won't scratch my car! Of course, instead of running a test that cost me 50 cents for a cd disk, I could probably just buy some sort of dedicated mega-buck computer specially designed just for the purpose of eliminating the horrific possibility of error! My point is that I don't think anyone can convince me that there's any reason at all to get up tight about the "CD test". As I stated, I intentionally really scrubbed hard on the cd to see how much the cd was scratched by the materials. My scientific hypothisis is that if one or the other of the test materials scratched anything less than the other test material did, I'm gonna use the one on my car that scratched the least.
Yup, the CD test is only good for determining what won't scratch your car, but not for what will scratch your car.</blockquote>
Hmmm....I guess one can sit and argue all day about whether the "cd test" is scientifically viable or politically correct or whatever. If it shows me what "won't scratch my car" (which seems a lot more useable and relevant to know than what "will scratch my car"), it seems like a heckuva good test to me. I'd run the test on a pumpkin if it helped me find out what won't scratch my car! Of course, instead of running a test that cost me 50 cents for a cd disk, I could probably just buy some sort of dedicated mega-buck computer specially designed just for the purpose of eliminating the horrific possibility of error! My point is that I don't think anyone can convince me that there's any reason at all to get up tight about the "CD test". As I stated, I intentionally really scrubbed hard on the cd to see how much the cd was scratched by the materials. My scientific hypothisis is that if one or the other of the test materials scratched anything less than the other test material did, I'm gonna use the one on my car that scratched the least.
http://autopia-carport.com/forum/showthread.php3?s=&threadid=3677&highlight=CD%2A
http://autopia-carport.com/forum/showthread.php3?s=&threadid=3686&highlight=CD%2A
I personally like and use the test. How else am I supposed to judge how well I like a shipment of microfiber towels from a softness stand point? I'd like to have a better way, how about the people that don't like the test tell me and I'll do that.
http://autopia-carport.com/forum/showthread.php3?s=&threadid=3686&highlight=CD%2A
I personally like and use the test. How else am I supposed to judge how well I like a shipment of microfiber towels from a softness stand point? I'd like to have a better way, how about the people that don't like the test tell me and I'll do that.
imported_MikeB
New member
A buddy of mine insists on his own method of testing the softness of his MF towels. He calls it the tush test. 
Needless to say it keeps me from borrowing his towels!
Personally I think the CD test is a little more dignified.
Needless to say it keeps me from borrowing his towels!
Personally I think the CD test is a little more dignified.
Tortoise is correct in my opinion. No one is saying that if a towel scratches a CD, then it is going to scratch a car. That would be an ignorant assessment or conlusion. HOWEVER, WHAT WE DO SAY IS WOULD YOU RATHER USE A QUALITY TOWEL THAT SCRATCHES A CD OR A QUALITY TOWEL THAT DOESN'T. And though the CD test is not completely valid, it does give you some helpful information in my opinion. Laters
G
Guest
Guest
TortoiseAWD - wow! you only paid $.30 each for your CD disks? Mine cost about $.50 each. Help, I've been robbed! Sorry, just couldn't resist. I owned a computer store for 18 years before retiring and remember selling 5 1/4" floppy disks for $8.00 each! Sorry for the off topic, but couldn't help myself. I'm so sold on the CD Test that I'm gonna try it at the store next time I go shopping for toilet paper...
TortoiseAWD
New member
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' >
<em class='bbc'>Originally posted by dlw [/i]
<strong class='bbc'>TortoiseAWD - wow! you only paid $.30 each for your CD disks? Mine cost about $.50 each. Help, I've been robbed! Sorry, just couldn't resist. I owned a computer store for 18 years before retiring and remember selling 5 1/4" floppy disks for $8.00 each! Sorry for the off topic, but couldn't help myself. I'm so sold on the CD Test that I'm gonna try it at the store next time I go shopping for toilet paper... [/b]</blockquote>dlw,
CompUSA has spindles of 50 for about $15 including tax . . . they just keep on dropping in price. They can be had even cheaper online in bulk, but 50 will last me probably until CD-R has become obsolete.
Tort
<em class='bbc'>Originally posted by dlw [/i]
<strong class='bbc'>TortoiseAWD - wow! you only paid $.30 each for your CD disks? Mine cost about $.50 each. Help, I've been robbed! Sorry, just couldn't resist. I owned a computer store for 18 years before retiring and remember selling 5 1/4" floppy disks for $8.00 each! Sorry for the off topic, but couldn't help myself. I'm so sold on the CD Test that I'm gonna try it at the store next time I go shopping for toilet paper... [/b]</blockquote>dlw,
CompUSA has spindles of 50 for about $15 including tax . . . they just keep on dropping in price. They can be had even cheaper online in bulk, but 50 will last me probably until CD-R has become obsolete.
Tort
imported_Intermezzo
New member
The test I use is a perfectly marr-free & square piece of piece of acrylic (plexiglass) from an aquarium filter in which I've carefully layered about ten coats of Zaino. It has absolutely no scratches in it. Since all my cars are protected by paint sealants, I figured that the best test would be to rub it on the ten coats of Zaino and then observe closely under various flourescent light angles. If there is any marring, then the towel fails. I find that when rubbing with the same pressure you would to buff your car, there is hardly any marring with just about any high-quality towel. But if you rub harder and long enough, you will get marring with ALL towels, cotton or MF. Among MFs, I've tried nicsand (terrible marring), Viper and Neatitems. I guess I should try the YoSteve MT towels sometime. 100% cotton marred my coats even more than Nicsand when rubbed hard and vigorously.
After testing, I just apply a few coats of Z-5 and the acrylic is perfectly marr-free.
After testing, I just apply a few coats of Z-5 and the acrylic is perfectly marr-free.