Metabo PE 12-175 Versus Flex 3403 or larger Makitia/Dewalt/Flex

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eyecandy

New member
How does the Metabo PE 12-175 rack up against the competition? I know Metabo 715 is the benchmark of all grinders, I use them everyday and never fail.



I currently have the Flex 3401 DA, I am looking to add a rotary polisher to the mix. I have to say I am a big fan of brand loyalty, and at the same time I like lightweight tools, which both the PE12-175 and 3403 are in the lightweight category. With brand loyalty in mind I would like to get the FLex 3403 to match the 3401, but not sure how it compares to the others, and I hear there may be an issue with overload of the motor shutting down, which made me bring up the Metabo, and the specs for the Metabo are similar, does the Metabo suffer the same overload?



I am sure the Metabo or Flex does not pack the same punch as the Dewalt or Makita, but can the same corrections be made?
 
I've had a Flex 3403 for about a year and a half now. It's an ok machine. Not great, just ok. It's loud, it gets hot, and it will do thermal shutdowns with larger pads and/or much pressure. There's also been a few cases of them completely failing.
 
SuperBee364 said:
I've had a Flex 3403 for about a year and a half now. It's an ok machine. Not great, just ok. It's loud, it gets hot, and it will do thermal shutdowns with larger pads and/or much pressure. There's also been a few cases of them completely failing.
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Have u used a larger Makita or Dewalt? When you talk about larger pads, what size? 7.5"? How longer in the use does it go into thermal shutdown? On the loudness side do you have any other machines that it could be compared to?



One thing I like about the 3403 it appears the body is the same as the 3401, perhaps this could be a reason for the thermal shutdowns same body with a larger motor/transmission and I really like the feel and the location of the controls.



On the other end with the Metabo, again they seem to use the same body for a number of their machines, and I am sure its the same with the the motors, with that being said in terms of their grinders I have not seen any of them go internal a thermal shutdown, or even fail for that matter, this is afters years and years of use and alot of abuse and negligence. On the controls side it like the PC on/off on top, large round body, and speed dial on the back.
 
I have a metabo pe 12-175 it is a great machine i have work that thing for hours with no problem its a great tool if your doing a lot of polishing as it is not as heavy as the dewalt or makita after a while using one of them you'll feel the them getting heavier.On the other hand a have a makita 9227c for more serious paint correction as the metabo pe 12-175 isn't strong enough. Both are great machines dewalt too,but what i didn't like was the noise too noisy for me.
 
I also have the Metabo and there is nothing I have come across that I can't correct with it. I also have a DeWalt and a PC but those hardly get used now. The Metabo is light and helps with the fatigue factor.
 
I have much experience with the Metabo PE12-175, and I can tell you these things.



Does not have a variable speed trigger, a gripe of mine and others. I still use the machine all the time with no problems, and love it. I have gotten so used to not having the trigger, I don't think twice about it. Regardless, for comparison sake, and to put your mind at east, I strongly encourage you to try machines with the trigger as well. For example, the Makita 9227.



When I was very new, years ago, I experienced a thermal shutdown. Only once has this occured, and I'll tell you why.

It was 90*F in my garage with the door ajar, polishing a practice panel just for kicks. I was using a gummed up auto-store wool pad, un-primed powergloss compound, and very heavy pressure in a vain attempt to get around the severe buffer hop (I'll admit it, I was a newbie at one point, too.). Because the pad wasn't being primed, pad gumming up like crazy, and I was just messing around, it heated up rapidly and shut down for a few minutes.



On any recent or even past jobs, though, I've never experienced a shutdown. Keep your pads primed, and let the product do most of the work.



It's one heck of a smooth working machine, auto-stop carbon brushes, has overload protection, die cast aluminum gearbox housing, and my favorites feature, tons of smooth torque and it's wonderfully small size.



First things that I noticed about it, though, is that it's light, and built like a panzer tank.



Wonderful machine, try it out, because there's no substitute for German engineering. If you already appreciate your angle grinders, you'll want no less.
 
Wow... lots of questions... lessee here....





eyecandy said:
Have u used a larger Makita or Dewalt? Yes When you talk about larger pads, what size? 7.5"? Yes How longer in the use does it go into thermal shutdown? Depends on how hot the ambient temperature is, size of pad, pressure applied, and RPMs selected on the machine. It does not like slow RPMs. Faster is better. On the loudness side do you have any other machines that it could be compared to? It is MUCH louder than a Makita 9227



One thing I like about the 3403 it appears the body is the same as the 3401, perhaps this could be a reason for the thermal shutdowns same body with a larger motor/transmission and I really like the feel and the location of the controls.



On the other end with the Metabo, again they seem to use the same body for a number of their machines, and I am sure its the same with the the motors, with that being said in terms of their grinders I have not seen any of them go internal a thermal shutdown, or even fail for that matter, this is afters years and years of use and alot of abuse and negligence. On the controls side it like the PC on/off on top, large round body, and speed dial on the back.
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charlesaferg said:
I have much experience with the Metabo PE12-175, and I can tell you these things.



Does not have a variable speed trigger, a gripe of mine and others. I still use the machine all the time with no problems, and love it. I have gotten so used to not having the trigger, I don't think twice about it. Regardless, for comparison sake, and to put your mind at east, I strongly encourage you to try machines with the trigger as well. For example, the Makita 9227.



When I was very new, years ago, I experienced a thermal shutdown. Only once has this occured, and I'll tell you why.

It was 90*F in my garage with the door ajar, polishing a practice panel just for kicks. I was using a gummed up auto-store wool pad, un-primed powergloss compound, and very heavy pressure in a vain attempt to get around the severe buffer hop (I'll admit it, I was a newbie at one point, too.). Because the pad wasn't being primed, pad gumming up like crazy, and I was just messing around, it heated up rapidly and shut down for a few minutes.



On any recent or even past jobs, though, I've never experienced a shutdown. Keep your pads primed, and let the product do most of the work.



It's one heck of a smooth working machine, auto-stop carbon brushes, has overload protection, die cast aluminum gearbox housing, and my favorites feature, tons of smooth torque and it's wonderfully small size.



First things that I noticed about it, though, is that it's light, and built like a panzer tank.



Wonderful machine, try it out, because there's no substitute for German engineering. If you already appreciate your angle grinders, you'll want no less.
Click to expand...



Thanks for the reply!



What size pads do you typically use with the Metabo? What kind of backing plate or adaptor? And during the thermal shutdown how long were you using it?



What is the size of the Metabo body diameter, overall length and the length of the green body section?



I have the Flex 3401, so I am use to the control layout, which makes me lean towards the 3403, if I had the PC perhaps I would be more accustomed to the Metabo, but as I said before I love the quality of the Metabo products; the 3401 is the first and only Flex tool I have used.



On the Flex 3403 for any users out there how does the size compare to the 3401, are the identical bodys?



My worry with the Flex is the thermal shut down, and potential service down the road. I know metabos are probably easier to find service centers. On the pads sizes I think 6.5" is all I would need, which both will do. The 6.5" is all I have used thus far, not sure how a 7.5 is better/differ aside from a larger coverage area. Plus in either case since I already have Lake Country 6.5" pads I can use those with the rotary (Flex/Metabo) and the Flex 3401.
 
I love my Makita 9227. First time ever machine polishing, picked it up with a 3M backing plate and 5.5 inch pads and man is it nice and easy, so quiet too. It is kinda hefty, but being an endurance swimmer and weightlifter, I don't notice it too much except for at the very end of a full detail.



It definitely has the power, it is smooth, I mean I'm brand new to machine polishing physically, just a general knowledge from studying and watching videos and it is very smooth, it occasionally pulls or jumps a little on a sharp body line, but I think that's my fault and not the machines. I would go with the Makita, since it is an all-around champ, and can handle heavy correction, then if you do want a lightweight rotary you can pick one up later.
 
Darkstar752 said:
I love my Makita 9227. First time ever machine polishing, picked it up with a 3M backing plate and 5.5 inch pads and man is it nice and easy, so quiet too. It is kinda hefty, but being an endurance swimmer and weightlifter, I don't notice it too much except for at the very end of a full detail.



It definitely has the power, it is smooth, I mean I'm brand new to machine polishing physically, just a general knowledge from studying and watching videos and it is very smooth, it occasionally pulls or jumps a little on a sharp body line, but I think that's my fault and not the machines. I would go with the Makita, since it is an all-around champ, and can handle heavy correction, then if you do want a lightweight rotary you can pick one up later.
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+1. used it for the first time yesterday on hard audi paint after some light wet sanding. worked like a champ. 10x better than a pc as its smooth, powerful and if you are careful with the speeds pretty easy to use. yes its a little hefty but when polishing, i do the vertical panels first as holding it against those panels makes for a workout. then do the horizontals where you only have to guide it. love the feather trigger too. haven't tried your other questioned models but am happy with this choice.



was also happy with using a white pad and 205. took the light wetsanding scuffs out easily and left a lsp ready gloss.
 
I have all the rotarys mentioned except the Makita(which I like and used a someones buffer a couple of times), I prefer the DeWalt for serious correction needs as the power and torque that occasionaly needed cannot be beat. For polishing and fine jewelling I prefer the Flex rotary for the size(weight also) and the fact the spindle is short so with a backing plate on I can get into tighter spaces.



The Flex is noisy and gets hot but has never shut down on me, the Metabo has done this a few times. As for the pad size I rarely use my eight inch pads anymore(edge wool) plus I prefer a trigger switch to feather the rpm's when jewelling.
 
Auto Concierge said:
I have all the rotarys mentioned except the Makita(which I like and used a someones buffer a couple of times), I prefer the DeWalt for serious correction needs as the power and torque that occasionaly needed cannot be beat. For polishing and fine jewelling I prefer the Flex rotary for the size(weight also) and the fact the spindle is short so with a backing plate on I can get into tighter spaces.



The Flex is noisy and gets hot but has never shut down on me, the Metabo has done this a few times. As for the pad size I rarely use my eight inch pads anymore(edge wool) plus I prefer a trigger switch to feather the rpm's when jewelling.
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Good info, thanks! My 3403 did it's first thermal shutdown on me a few months ago when i tried the KBM method with it. It did *not* like the combination of firm pressure and slow RPM'S. My 3403 seems to be much happier at high RPM'S; it doesn't get as hot, and it doesn't sound like it's bogging. And as AutoConcierge has said, the light weight is really nice when jeweling.
 
eyecandy said:
Thanks for the reply!



What size pads do you typically use with the Metabo? What kind of backing plate or adaptor? And during the thermal shutdown how long were you using it?



What is the size of the Metabo body diameter, overall length and the length of the green body section?



I have the Flex 3401, so I am use to the control layout, which makes me lean towards the 3403, if I had the PC perhaps I would be more accustomed to the Metabo, but as I said before I love the quality of the Metabo products; the 3401 is the first and only Flex tool I have used.



On the Flex 3403 for any users out there how does the size compare to the 3401, are the identical bodys?



My worry with the Flex is the thermal shut down, and potential service down the road. I know metabos are probably easier to find service centers. On the pads sizes I think 6.5" is all I would need, which both will do. The 6.5" is all I have used thus far, not sure how a 7.5 is better/differ aside from a larger coverage area. Plus in either case since I already have Lake Country 6.5" pads I can use those with the rotary (Flex/Metabo) and the Flex 3401.
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If you're used to the front grip on the Flex, you'll already be halfway familiarized with the ergonomics of the metabo, because it's got the same hand hold.



For foam, I use 6.5" LC CCS, but it's mostly because I can use it with my flex and PC and not have to buy a whole new set of pads, besides my really small ones. Wool, though, I use 6.5, 7.5, and little 4" PFW pads, depending on how intricate the job may be, and how many times I feel like switching from small to large during a job.



Again, the size is very similar, and so is the weight. I think the metabo is a bit more streamlined, and built toucher. Once you pick it up, you'll know what I mean, that Metabo PE12-175 is built tough.
 
This is what I have come up with.



Flex L3403 VRG

-Pretty much identical to the 3401, having used only the 3401 I am accustom to the controls and handling.

-On the controls, I like only the slight finger movement required adjust speed setting or lock the trigger, and the easy on/off is a plus (perhaps never used a rotary).

-Brand loyalty, lol

-Mixed reviews on the overload cut out, it sounds as though it is found on slower speeds or with larger than 6.5" pads. On the pads no biggy less product to purchase.

-Higher power output then Metabo (yet smaller max pad size :think: )



Metabo

-Robust tools, use there grinders everyday, some probably as close to my age, beat up thrown around, never fail!

-The body has the same look as their grinders, however actual size IDK, maybe the same body size. Which I am accustom to holding their grinders. I will admit it is not the most ergonomic, its round and handling position is balanced (again this is based of their grinders) However I do find the size of the body to sometimes be wearing, my hands are medium sized.

-Lower output then the Flex but says can use a larger bad....





Price wise I have found both of them for about the same. Low $200's, so price is not a factor.





I was comparing the Flex DA 3401 to my Metabo grinder first I noticed I hold the two differently, the flex is held towards the back where the trigger and speed control/lock is located, while the Metabo is held in the center, it tried to "mock" the feeling of the front handle, didnt work as planned, LOL, but I think I got the idea. The Metabo would have a "choked up" feel to it, that is if the PE12-175 is held in the mid section. Not sure how that will feel during a polishing session. With that being said I think it would yield more of "flat" pressure on the pad so to speak, as the pad spindle would be about centered between the hands, comments/confirmation on this?





On the on/off or speed adjustment, what is the best way to do this? I am relatively new to polishing I have only used the 3401. I have used it on 5 cars, ac couple of them multiple times, used it to polish/glaze or apply sealant. I always held the Flex just over the surface, slowly easy on the trigger and on the body, (this being after I spread the product over the area) using a slower speed, once the product was spread across the surface I would continue my figure 8's and dial in more speed. On the Metabo how would this be done? Set to slower speed, ease on the surface, slowly work the product, then lift off adjust to higher seating, ease on, continue?



Thats my biggest concern, lack of trigger or ease of speed adjustment, perhaps if I had a PC I would be more accustom to the situation. Perhaps as with everything in life you just gotta try them for yourself....ie buy them both, sell the one not needed (or keep for a back up)....



My last concern is service or parts availability of the Flex or Metabo... Just looking down the road...





Hmm I think thats it for now, its late, I hope its all understandable...
 
I spoke with both Flex NA and Metabo NA. Got some news on the body size. The Flex says the body is the same as the 3401. While Metabo says the Body is a little longer than the grinder I am use to using, for those that are wondering the grinder is w7-115, but the diameter is the same, and the overall length is 14". I would have to check this against the Flex.





Damn some tough decisions, I was speaking to a few retailers. The Flex looks to be the one most carried, perhaps this is due to the praise of the XC4301... Or the fact is is a better rotary... A couple of place I spoke with said the Flex/Metabo are the the best they have used giver the power, rpms, and weight. IDK...Perhaps repost back with more info or what I bought tomorrow!!



Any more input is always appreciated!!
 
My personal in-depth thoughts...



I have had a ton of polishers and I love the Makita and Metabo the most. I have not tried any of the Flex's yet, because I have heard my many people that they can not handle long hardcore polishing sessions.



It took a little while to get used to the Metabo, because I had regular rotaries 18 years prior to the machine, so it was teaching a dog a new trick. But after a few days, I honestly fell in love with it.



I had some overheating issues the first week with it when it was 100 degrees out and during the first initial break in, but after that I never had it shut down again.



Torque is extremly wild, and the more pressure you press down on it, the more torque and power it puts out, so the RPM is constantly even. When you use uplift pressure, it turns the torque down so you can jewel the surface.



I did ended up melting the whole gear drive to ultra-fine powder to the point where it has no more gears left. Pretty cool huh.:clap::woohoo:



Now I took it apart and I am VERY impressed at the construction, build quality, tightness, etc... Minus the melted parts, which I knew I would do anyway, because I put this machine through some very long extreme torture.



What I did notice on the inside was a round plastic housing, tightly wrapped around the gear drive assembly. It was also heavily packed with grease, so it acts as a catch, so it can collect the metal filings, so nothing escapes out of the machine like other standard machines do. This I thought was a brilliant idea, because I always worry about filings from any machine flying out. I always constantly blow my machines out, but the Metabo has their bases covered on this one.



It is a mini tank! I am gonna buy the replacement parts, so I can rebuild it myself, but I honestly would buy another one. Even though I killed it in 15-16 months, it is the first machine that I never had to rebuild in under a year.



The Makita is also a very fine machine and it speaks for itself.:2thumbs:



Ryan
 
Well I decided to go with the Metabo, after talking with some retailers the Flex was split 50/50, the Metabo however stood solid. Oh and got it cheaper than what the Flex goes for; win/win!! Just got to wait a few days to get it.



How is the 3M 5" bakcing plate to use with 6.5" pads?



Now I need some backing pads, what sizes/brands should I be looking at for 6.5" and 4" pads?
 
Anyone?



I am confused on sizing the BP with the pads... On 6.5" do I want a 4-3/4", 5" (3m or LC style?), 6"?? On 4" do I want a -7/8" or 3-3/4"
 
We currently use Makita 9227 for correction, Flex 3401 DA for polishing and LSP's we don't apply by hand. We are ordering a Flex 3403. Have a Cyclo but, it just seems big and clunky and haven't used it in months.
 
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