MAJOR swirls...

A

ALM

New member
My brother just bough a '92 Eagle Talon, that has MAJOR swirl marks on the hood and body. In addition, it has some moderate oxidation on the passenser's side. Anyone have some suggestions as to what to to use to remove them?

I was looking @ 3M Finish Restorer and 3M Med Cut rubbing compound....would any of these two work?
 
Steve are these swirls deep and countless, or light and countless?



If your working by hand, it might take days to improve the finish.



With a PC, it may take a dayor two of just polishing.



With a rotary, a few hours and its as good as it can get.



I'm not familiar with 3M FInish restorer, but I think you should try the Med Cut rubbing compound. If that does not work, try something more agressive.



So if there that pad, and you want to actually wake up all nice and perky, not sore, try a rotary rented from a DIY store.
 
Jason, they are light and countless. I mean the finish is a mess by all means. I need something abrasive thats going to cut a bit....cuz id bet $$$ that this car has never been polished in its life.

What can happen if the swirls are left there? Will it eventully pit and rust?
 
then I would use 3M's Perfect It line of Rubbing Compounds.



These compounds should handle your problem car.



As for swirls causing a pit and rust feature, 95% of the cars on the road should have pit and rust by now. Almost every car i see has swirls. Except for those one or two I detail religiously :)



haha, if I did not like my brother, I would use some 3M IHG to hide them swirls, slap on some Blitz and send him on his way. HAHA!
 
Built in Normal, Illinois, Mitsubisi plant, uses PPG paint system. 1992's system used are failing all over the place, the top, probably black, has only 2.7 max film build, the rest of the vehicle when new was around 4.5 It was what Mitsu and Chyrsler specified for the production, not PPG's fault.



The marks are from an untrained, unknowledgable about modern clears, their histories etc, detailer trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. He had not a clue of what he was dealing with.



The "scratches" are not really scatches, but thermal stress marks that go clear to the primer.



Don't waste to much time or spend a lot of money, all you can do is grease it up to look good for short periods of time.



Repaint time!!



Sorry, don't shot the messenger, please!!

:(
 
Ron: Thanks for the info, no hard feelings here..where else could we get this kinda info?!? :D



Jason: As usualy thanks for your input too...i think IHG may be the way to go with this job!
 
A local detailer who had attended the PrepExcellence School a couple of months ago and is from here in Cincy, called a couple of weeks ago in a tizzy.



Had taken on a job for a local guy who bought used cars, cleaned them up and sold them at the public auction.



He had hammered this Talon, a 93 blue metallic and was at a loss since he couldn't get a real shine to come up.



Since it is on the way to my favorite afterwork watering hole and they are good people, did not have the rep that services them go down the next day but stopped my self.



Same thing as what you are facing.



Took the DeWalt, a clearcoat cutting pad, our heaviest compound, not for clears, and wailed away at it, and he was happy!!.



Well, not for long, because then I washed the area down with an alcohol and water mixture and dried it with a heat gun. The paint, while smoother was not near as shiney once the lubricators of the compound were cleaned off.



I then polished the hood, using our PreConditioner Cleaner and a lambs wool pad, it shined again, and he was happy.



Well, not for long, because I cleaned it off again and yes a bit better looking finish, but was dull again.



See, once the system is broken down, it is history.



So, then I showed him the "trick" and how to explain it to the guy.



Meqiuar's #7, all it is is mineral spirits and some fill agents, lasts a little longer than a keosene and motor oil mixture, and told him to have the guy wipe it on , wipe it off just before it went across the block, it would shine good under the lights, the person buying it would be happy for a day or so.



Sound unfair, not really, it was an auction beater to begin with, but had a good interior and strong motor. For the money they would pay for it, they couldn't expect much more.



That is the way that these detailers, car lots get them sold.



Just a little more inside information.



:eek:
 
I don't have a PC, nor am i skilled in using one, so whatever is going to be done im going to hafta do with my bare hands, and that really doesn't sound like a good option at this point.



Hypothetically speaking, if this car had been taken care of from day one by people like us using Sealeants, Microfiber towels, etc. do you think the car would be in better shape than it is? Or would the paint still have deteriorated regardless?
 
The use of protective products keeps the enviormental pollutants from being liquified by rain, dew and carwashes so they do not enter the resin system of the paint easily.



This is a key factor, that and the extra shine that causes the UV rays to bounce off rather than being absorbed.



There are many of these vehicles on the road that are showing little if any degradation of the paint system.



Interestingly enough when we reveiw paint warranty claims and submitted customer concern records with DCX , we find very few from those who purchased the Master Shield Paint Sealant when purchasing the vehicle.



Of course those numbers are slightly tweeked, since most of those who did purchase the sealant from the dealer must have had some concern then and for the future of their vehicles paint.



The other side, the "down side" is the unreal expectations of some customers, largely due to the sales tactics used by the dealership sales people. If the customer follows the instructions for the car of the paint that are laid out in the warranty of the product, clean with a mild soap and water, no detergents, etc, no applications of other products that are not approved, no reapplications of some "TV" junk, it holds up. But it will not stop scratches, chips etc. Hell, it is a sealant, not a suit of steel armor.



But, overall, the MS product treated vehicles exhibited a far less number of complaints.



That to me proves that the use of a high resin system of polymer sealants is benefical for the vehicle.



Keep in mind, that this involves somewhere in the area of 23 million vehicles over the past 20 years, not all of the vehicles produced were treated by the dealers with the sealant (aprox 6% to 8%), but those that were, the numbers speak for themselves as far as DCX is concerned or they would not continue to market the product.



:bounce
 
i just hate to hear it when something can't be fixed.



Brings a tear to my eye, then anger.



the 3M IHG may make the car look new, then after a wash ahhhh!
 
Since you shouldn't remove all the clear and it has the cracks in it, if you apply a wax or sealant, the solids and indicators get in the cracks and turn white when dry, then it looks even worse.



The #7, being basically just mineral spirits with a very, very small percentage of solids takes about 12 to 24 hours to evaporate entirely before the solids content shows up in the cracking of the clear.



:eek:
 
I am confused. Are you saying once a clear coat has swirl or scratch damage there is nothing you can do. Or is it just on these particular Chrysler models???
 
:cool:

For sometime I have recommended that all go to Radio Shack and buy their little 30X lighted magnifer and learn to use it to "inspect" the finish before starting any out of the ordinary process.



What these vehicles have for a concern is not true marring (scratches/swirls) but the actual degradation of the clear. It has "come apart", split, broken up, thermal stressed, become junk.



There are couple of highly magnified pictures of this type of condition on our site under the Tech Tips Section. These are your education,if you will, for when you use the magnifier, you have a better idea of what you are seeing.



Makes it much easier to determine before you start a time consuming process that may not accomplish any posistive results.



:up
 
Took a look at your site. There is a lot of good technical information on there. I guess I will stick to polymers for protection, higher heat threshold.(my car is black inside and out and just loves sucking in all of the suns thermal energy) Do you know what type of protection an acrylic would bring against heat like Klasse?
 
Ron-

I also saw the article on the Blue Coral touchless removal. I wish I would have saw that a few years earlier. That touchless junk had me scared of Klasse. I had applied to the fender and realized what junk it was. I wound up polishing it off by hand. Luckily I put it on a car that was already a few years old.
 
An acrylic is a "polymer", just old German way that they used to describe the product when it was introduced, was to use the term "acrylic" as they felt the public at the time was all hot and gooie about the term.



So, yes it is a polymer/copolymer product, it with stands fairly high temperatures as any good sealant will.



Not all sealants are equal, due to the particular polymer resins utilized and the percentage that is compounded into them.



In other words, the word of caution on this is to not assume that just because some marketing whizkid, put the words "polymer" on the label, that it is the same as others.



Look for products that have been around for a while and are accepted by the public.



Some are better than others.





:cool:
 
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