LSP safe waterless washes?

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imported_RedlineIRL

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For a quick detailer that I keep in my car, I like to use a waterless wash mixed to QD strength since it seems much better than a typical quick detailer. For a while now I have been using ONR as my QD. While it works great at cleaning the surfaces, the thing I don't like is that it seems to affect my LSP. I have noticed this big time with Collinite 845, and I have noticed it (not as much so) with BFWD. It seems on the area I use the QD on, any kind of water on it will not bead as tightly and it is a lot less uniform. I am guessing that this is from the polymer layer than ONR leaves behind.



Are there any kind of waterress wash out there that do not leave any kind of polymer or other protection left behind? All I want is something that will clean without deacreasing the protection of my LSP. I looked at the 3D waterless wash, and it seems that it contains a polymer to it also. Any suggestions?
 
you're not the only one that has reported issues with onr and collinite not playing well togther. as for 3d/hd waterless they do leave behind some sort of proctection. not sure how they interact with collinite. i'm using the hd waterless wash but i have poxy on the car and opti coat on the other so i'm not experiencing any issues. fk146 might be another option.
 
PB Spray and Wash has been good for me but I can't confirm if it kills Collinite or not.
 
Dan said:
PB Spray and Wash has been good for me but I can't confirm if it kills Collinite or not.
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I like that fact that the PB Spray and Wash does not contain anything to add extra protection. Is it comparable to ONR as far as cleaning power, or is the PB stuff more for light duty use or for getting light dust of?



Phishy4 said:
Maybe try Opti-Clean?
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Opti Clean is supposed to be based off of the same polymers as ONR. Wether or not it's the polymers that are affecting LSPs that I have tried, I was wanting to try something else besides a waterrless wash from Optimum. That way I can see if it is infact something used in ONR decreasing LSP durability
 
It seems that ONR affects the beading of BFWD for me too. I have had BFWD on for 3 months or so, but on places I tested it really kills the beading properties. The areas that had ONR are blob like in beading and really ununiform whenever water contacts these areas. While the look while it's wet isn't really a big deal, I am just kind of concerned that it is reducing the durability of the LSP in general.



I know that this is a 3D and HD sponsored forum, but can anyone give an unbiased comparison of both ONR and the 3D Waterless Wash? Which seems to be the better at cleaning, and is safer at reducing the chace of marrinng? Also, does the 3D wash seem to affect beading?



Does the spay bottle of the 3D wash need to be dilluted or mixed with water if I want to use it as a QD, or can I just use it straight from the bottle?
 
RedlineIRL said:
I know that this is a 3D and HD sponsored forum, but can anyone give an unbiased comparison of both ONR and the 3D Waterless Wash? Which seems to be the better at cleaning, and is safer at reducing the chace of marrinng? Also, does the 3D wash seem to affect beading?
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I can provide some feedback, as I have used both. Keep in mind that being different processes, there are noticeable differences in usage patterns, speed and methods. It also might seem that one is better suited to clean than the other, as the same kind of opposition that was seen when transitioning from conventional to rinseless ("it cannot be safe! it will mar the paint! etc") is seen again in the transition from rinseless to waterless. They are very close in cleaning power, but I give the edge to 3D waterless / HD free. On road grime and bird bombs, HD Free / 3D waterless dissolves them faster. For mud, well, you shouldn't be washing if you have mud, as you need to remove the excess first with a garden hose, or a pressure washer. Once only a dirt film remains, 3D waterless / HD free stills dissolves it faster. If you would use rinseless, you can use waterless.



Both products (ONR, 3D / HD) are safe, and will not induce swirls if used properly. A good mitt is crucial with ONR, and a plush long nap towel is crucial with HD Free. HD Free is faster to use obviously, but surprisingly also leaves a shinier, glossier and slicker finish than ONR. In fact, 3D waterless / HD free leave a "just quick detailed finish". However, in answer to your question, it also affects LSP water beading, as 3D waterless / HD Free also have some wax.





RedlineIRL said:
Does the spay bottle of the 3D wash need to be dilluted or mixed with water if I want to use it as a QD, or can I just use it straight from the bottle?
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It is ready to be used straight from the bottle. However, there is a learning curve as you need to learn its behavior. 2-3 pumps per panel are enough, but the fear of marring the paint might make you pump more. It will streak in those cases. Personally, I use it diluted 1:1 with distilled water. Instead of the 2-3 pumps per panel, I go 5-6 pumps, using the same amount of product, but ensuring more even coverage of the panels. Works great for me. I might even try 2:1 and go 7-8 pumps, which might help on warmer surfaces. 3-4 oz of product is all it takes to clean a midsize sedan, if it takes more, you are using too much.



Hope it helps
 
RedlineIRL said:
I like that fact that the PB Spray and Wash does not contain anything to add extra protection. Is it comparable to ONR as far as cleaning power, or is the PB stuff more for light duty use or for getting light dust of?
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It seems every bit as powerful, if not more than ONR. I actually use it for cleaning stuff in the house too, because, as you said, it doesn't leave anything behind.
 
AlexRuiz said:
I can provide some feedback, as I have used both. Keep in mind that being different processes, there are noticeable differences in usage patterns, speed and methods. It also might seem that one is better suited to clean than the other, as the same kind of opposition that was seen when transitioning from conventional to rinseless ("it cannot be safe! it will mar the paint! etc") is seen again in the transition from rinseless to waterless. They are very close in cleaning power, but I give the edge to 3D waterless / HD free. On road grime and bird bombs, HD Free / 3D waterless dissolves them faster. For mud, well, you shouldn't be washing if you have mud, as you need to remove the excess first with a garden hose, or a pressure washer. Once only a dirt film remains, 3D waterless / HD free stills dissolves it faster. If you would use rinseless, you can use waterless.



Both products (ONR, 3D / HD) are safe, and will not induce swirls if used properly. A good mitt is crucial with ONR, and a plush long nap towel is crucial with HD Free. HD Free is faster to use obviously, but surprisingly also leaves a shinier, glossier and slicker finish than ONR. In fact, 3D waterless / HD free leave a "just quick detailed finish". However, in answer to your question, it also affects LSP water beading, as 3D waterless / HD Free also have some wax.









It is ready to be used straight from the bottle. However, there is a learning curve as you need to learn its behavior. 2-3 pumps per panel are enough, but the fear of marring the paint might make you pump more. It will streak in those cases. Personally, I use it diluted 1:1 with distilled water. Instead of the 2-3 pumps per panel, I go 5-6 pumps, using the same amount of product, but ensuring more even coverage of the panels. Works great for me. I might even try 2:1 and go 7-8 pumps, which might help on warmer surfaces. 3-4 oz of product is all it takes to clean a midsize sedan, if it takes more, you are using too much.



Hope it helps
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Thanks for the honest review, this helps me in my decision on what to used. Based upon what I have seen, I will probably give the PB Spray and Wash a try due to the fact is does not contain or add any additional protection.



Does the PB Spray and Wash require any dillution, ro can it be used straight from the bottle?
 
RedlineIRL said:
Thanks for the honest review, this helps me in my decision on what to used. Based upon what I have seen, I will probably give the PB Spray and Wash a try due to the fact is does not contain or add any additional protection.



Does the PB Spray and Wash require any dillution, ro can it be used straight from the bottle?
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You use it straight. PB's works well on warm surfaces, Some waterless sprays will dry on warm surfaces making it more difficult to buff off. I do not use it as my primary spray because I got a gallon of something else but I always keep some PB's around.
 
RedlineIRL said:
Thanks for the honest review, this helps me in my decision on what to used. Based upon what I have seen, I will probably give the PB Spray and Wash a try due to the fact is does not contain or add any additional protection.



Does the PB Spray and Wash require any dillution, ro can it be used straight from the bottle?
Click to expand...



You are welcome! The "NO additional protection" makes it harder to suggest products. PB spray and wipe is decent, but in all honesty, HD Free / 3D waterless is much much better as waterless wash. Dissolves grime much faster, has better lubricity, leaves a nicer shine, it is glossier, doesn't look or feel "greasy", it is slicker, and doesn't streak as easily. When using PB S&W I could easily pick ONR or any other rinseless as first choice. After using HD Free / 3D waterless, I don't see myself using a rinseless other than in subfreezing temps where the additional volume of water helps to delay freeze up.



I will be using HD Free as winter maintenance, and I am planning on reporting how it interacts with Collinite 476S and Finish Kare FK1000P. I used it last winter over FK1000P, but in all honesty, the first time I used it the temp was so nice that I decided to add a coat of Mothers FX spray wax... Mistake, as that totally changed the behavior of the paint. FK1000P, 476S and 845IW almost shed dirt by themselves; FX spray doesn't.





Alex

PS. You probably noticed I have used HD Free / 3D waterless almost interchangeably. I bought HD Free, and got 3D waterless as gift, so I have used them both. They are virtually the same product in my experience, and in Ben's words, it is true. Different color and smell; and surprisingly, price.
 
I am leaning towards the PB S&W due to the fax that it does not contain any waxes or additional protecting agents. When using ONR and at QD strength I have noticed that it changes the characteristics of the LSP in the surface area it was appplied. In areas where I QD'ed off bird bombs, after a couple days I noticed that dirt or water will pool where the ONR QD was in contact. I don't know if it has to do with the polymers in it disrupting the LSP, but I want to try something that is designed to clean without additional protection.



While I am not going to be using any of these as a dedicated waterless wash, just simply as a bird bomb and other needs QD, I don't want to sacrifice lubricity or power when it comes to dissolving of dirt and grime. For you all that have used both the PB S&W and ONR at QD strength, which do you find to be more effective as a dedicated quick detailer?
 
I'll probably use the PB waterless wash as well. I don't need much at all for cleaning power when I'm only trying to remove light dust. If I have anything worse than that on the car, I'll wash it properly.
 
I'm a big fan of Adam's Waterless Wash. It cleans well, buffs clear quickly and easily and doesn't seem to affect the LSP.
 
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