Look at what I've done....it's bad!

B

Beach15

New member
From the day we bought our Onyx Black 2002 Chevy Avalanche Z66, I swore I would keep the paint perfect and I did, at least until a few months ago. At first, I used Klasse AIO and SG. Then I added several coats of Platinum UPP to the mix and loved the look even more. Then, last fall, I started the S100 routine and really fell head over hills in love with the "real" wax shimmer. All the while, I was extra careful as expected, because this is pure black I'm dealing with!



Then around April or May, one of us (I won't say who) decided to just hose it off, to get all the pollen that was laying on it off. It dried overnight though, and small water spots formed all over. Not a big problem, and something that could have been taken off with some S100 polish, easily. For whatever reason, I chose AIO, and then decided to apply it using small CIRCULAR motions!! It's nothing but my own fault.



Over the summer, I detailed it one or two more times and really got it almost mark free by using S100 polish and 3 coats of S100 wax. It looked gorgeous, and you could only see a few light swirls.



Then yesterday, it was cool and nice outside, so I decided to wash it in the morning. When done, it looked awful. I could see swirls and other marks all over. It was time for another fix. I had never used it before (not a good idea), but I got out the SMR and foam pad and went over every panel, rubbing it in in straight lines until dry. Klasse AIO was next. Then I followed up with three coats of Platinum UPP (why I used Platinum, I'm not sure. I liked it a lot last summer, but I hate it now). In the shade and in moderate light, it looked quite nice yesterday afternoon and evening. Now that the morning sun is out, I just about want to vomit.



The perfect black paint that existed for the first year, now looks like the typical "careless" owner owned black car. Swirls EVERYWHERE, and even some bad wide ones in places. It looks like I ran it through the automatic spinner car wash without wax, and then pulled it out and slapped about 5 coats of S100 on.



I have to get it back to the way it was! But I need some help. I know I need a PC (not the most expensive) and a very good polish or two, but I don't know which ones. Doesn't Lowes sell a model of PC for around $130? I remember something like that being mentioned here, but I'm not sure.



My list:

-PC

-All the pads I'll need

-Polish



Now, could someone please direct me to the right stuff I need? Simply, what specific things and where to get them?



Oh, and here's the pics....I know, I know, what an idiot!!

Before & After Swirl Pics
 
Thanks! That looks like a good start! Now I just need the pads and the polish. Can you get a variety pack of the pads, on the net?



I'm thinking Meguiar's DACL for the polish...yes, no?
 
Beach,



My personal choice for your situation would be a few polishing and finishing pads, Hi-Temp Light Cut, AIO (2X) and top it of with S100.



It doesn't sound like you need a heavy cleaner nor a cutting pad so this is why I personally would use the Light Cut and a polishing pad. AIO then, which can be applied with a polishing pad the first pass then a finishing pad the second pass.



You can get pads here at Autopia I am sure as well as CMA and Top of the Line. The Light Cut can be bought at Top of the Line.



Good luck,

Anthony
 
From some of the patterns to the marks, it looks like towel marks. Have you switched towels over the past year?



Black is a tough color to take care of. But if you use a light cut polish like Meguiar's #9 or #82 Swirl Free Polish and a yellow POLISHING pad from Meg's like their W-8006 on a PC, it should eliminate most of your problems. Be sure to glaze it and seal/wax it after the #9 (or #82). Using a cutting pad would be over-kill IMHO and could cause more damage if not used properly.



Good Luck!!



Tim
 
markbigears said:
i dont understand? what exactly caused all this "damage" to the paint?
Click to expand...



Well, a few things, but there's no excuse for any of them. Number one, it sits outside 24 hours a day (no garage) and is driven daily. That may not seem too harsh, but for some reason, here in Delaware, the weather and climate aren't always perfect for keeping a black vehicle immaculate. Number two, back on that day I took the AIO and applied in circular motions (must have been brain dead that day, because I've never done that before). That's where a lot of it came from, because that was the first time ever my mother (it's her truck) actually commented and wanted to know what I did to it, because it was never swirled like that before. Another thing is, I have less and less time lately, with college coming up soon and me now having three cars to maintain and detail and not just the truck (I never had to do anything to my dad's old work van, or his '69 Chevelle that he was working on. The Avalanche got 100% of my attention then.).



Still, a stupid thing to do. The swirls do look terrible, and were the worst I've ever seen them today. However, I went out and put two coats of S100 wax on it this morning and then we went shopping. Despite being able to see some swirls (it's very sunny) the truck didn't look very bad at all. It was easily still the best paint I saw on any black car in all of the parking lots today.



I'm probably going to order a PC in a day or two, along with the polish I need. I'm planning and hoping on just getting it back to its swirl-free self, and then keeping a monthly routine of a polish and then wax, both using S100.



I just hope I can do it :confused: !
 
Foam hand pads and anything stronger than a glaze can be problems since it is almost impossible to apply even pressure so you end up with surface marring and swirls. That is why I use folded terry cloth towels when using swirl removers by hand since I can apply more even pressure.



Using a PC should eliminate uneven pressure when using swirl removers so once you get one, that should pretty much end your swirling problems, provided you use the right pads and products.
 
dude,



here's what you do. Learn from my expensive mistakes.



Buy a PC with 6" counterweight and velcro pad. (coastal tool has a special)

Buy a couple 7.5" white and yellow pads from topoftheline.com (if you buy 6 they give you a discount)

Use 3M SMR w/ yellow pad. Apply generously and work into a powder before buffing.

Use GEPC w/ white pad (or your S100 polish). Again, work into a powder before buffing.

Optional: Apply sealant. I'm about to try EX, but from what I hear, it's the bomb. You can use Klasse SG, but you'll need to wash out the oils from GEPC. With EX you don't have to.

Apply good wax, opinions vary. I like Blitz except it hazes on me (black car as well). So I'm going to try S100.



What you've been doing is essentially filling in the swirls with the polish and wax. Once those wear off, swirls appear again. The SMR should eliminate them for good. The EX and S100 will help protect the finish.



Trick now is to keep them off. Buy some waffle weave MF towels. I tried them this weekend. Never again will I use cotton. Pure and simple. pakshak.com has got some awesome ones. Make sure you blot dry. Using Cali WB helps tremendously as well. Any time you do anything by hand, straight lines, no swirls!!! Goes for buffing too. You can buff out with flannel or MF. I actually do both. Lastly, be careful when washing car. Lots of scratches occur that way. Use straight lines again, big bucket of sudsy water, good sheepskin wash mitt. California Duster is your friend.



This should keep you happy. Us black automobile/truck owners need to stick together.
 
weegee said:
dude,



here's what you do. Learn from my expensive mistakes.



Buy a PC with 6" counterweight and velcro pad. (coastal tool has a special)

Buy a couple 7.5" white and yellow pads from topoftheline.com (if you buy 6 they give you a discount)

Use 3M SMR w/ yellow pad. Apply generously and work into a powder before buffing.

Use GEPC w/ white pad (or your S100 polish). Again, work into a powder before buffing.

Optional: Apply sealant. I'm about to try EX, but from what I hear, it's the bomb. You can use Klasse SG, but you'll need to wash out the oils from GEPC. With EX you don't have to.

Apply good wax, opinions vary. I like Blitz except it hazes on me (black car as well). So I'm going to try S100.



What you've been doing is essentially filling in the swirls with the polish and wax. Once those wear off, swirls appear again. The SMR should eliminate them for good. The EX and S100 will help protect the finish.



Trick now is to keep them off. Buy some waffle weave MF towels. I tried them this weekend. Never again will I use cotton. Pure and simple. pakshak.com has got some awesome ones. Make sure you blot dry. Using Cali WB helps tremendously as well. Any time you do anything by hand, straight lines, no swirls!!! Goes for buffing too. You can buff out with flannel or MF. I actually do both. Lastly, be careful when washing car. Lots of scratches occur that way. Use straight lines again, big bucket of sudsy water, good sheepskin wash mitt. California Duster is your friend.



This should keep you happy. Us black automobile/truck owners need to stick together.
Click to expand...





The paragraph about keeping them off pretty much mirrors what I have been doing, more or less. I simply got a little careless. That, and if I remember right, when we bought the truck, it A) Had no wax, B) Was never detailed (probably a good thing) and sat outside for 3 months, and C) they did a "very quick wash" out back behind the dealership the Saturday we picked it up. It was still dripping and I do remember seeing some light swirl marks back then. Just like you said though, I've just been filling them in and waxing over top, for quite a while.





Scott- Exactly! One of the biggest problems with doing it by hand is that you can never get the right, even pressure, and it is almost impossible to do the work of a PC. No, it doesn't work miracles in seconds, but it is MUCH more effective than by hand. I think I'm going to get the "special" from coastal tools for the PC 7424.



Now, pads & polish. I see both white and yellow pads are recommended for my problem, so I'll get those. But I'm still a little cloudy on the polish. I have SMR, Klasse AIO & SG, S100 polish & wax, Platinum UPP, Zaino Z-5, and a few other things. If SMR would work, I wouldn't have to buy anything. However, I want a polish that can be used every now and then for a "touch-up", something like Meguiar's Swirl Free or another variety. What would be good to get rid of the swirls and to use as an occasional polish?
 
Which SMR do you have? Meguiars #9 or 3M? See I always used Meguiars #9 with the PC, and I also used it by hand to remove small imperfections. Recently on Autopian advice I tried the 3M, and it worked great with the PC, but when I used it by hand to spot polish, it was a disaster, looked like I sandpapered the paint. Once I got out the PC it was fine...



So I bought some Scratch X for hand work and am a happy man again.



So IMHO and experience, 3M SMR better with PC, Meguiars #9, better by hand. If I'm not mistaken Swirl Free and #9 are pretty similar in abrasiveness...
 
"Recently on Autopian advice I tried the 3M, and it worked great with the PC, but when I used it by hand to spot polish, it was a disaster, looked like I sandpapered the paint."



Yes, that's exactly what happened to me to. I had never really used the 3M SMR for Dark Cars, but I thought I'd give it a try by hand, just because the swirls that were there bothered me greatly. However, using this by hand was a great disaster, and now it really does look like I sandpapered the paint and then added a few great coats of wax over top.



Once I get the PC (hope to order it tonight), I can probably use the SMR, but I also want something lighter for use with occasional polishings.



Oh, and I need help with the foam pads. Do I want cutting, polishing, or both? I want to get rid of the swirls and polish occasionally, and also add wax or sealant sometimes with the PC. What kind of pads do you wax with? I want to get everything ordered ASAP!
 
I clayed a black Pathfinder cause it has paint dots and after the clay, it looked with a lot of minor swirls, and I use 82 SFP from meguiars and then Z5 and Z2 X 2 and finally it looked great



Hope this helps
 
Beach15,



You really should have at least one of every type of pads. Yellow for cutting, white for polishing, grey for finishing.



I use the Lake Advance pads, which you can order from CMA.



Depending on the swirls and scratches, you may have to use a cutting pad (yellow) and DACP to clean/polish out the defects. Then switch to a lighter polish, say 3M PIII-MG or megs #9 or BS SMR with a white polish pad.



Your finish should then look like a mirror. If not, continue with a polish to bring up the gloss.



Then wax or sealant till you're happy!



Regards,

Deanski
 
Deanski said:
Beach15,



You really should have at least one of every type of pads. Yellow for cutting, white for polishing, grey for finishing.



I use the Lake Advance pads, which you can order from CMA.



Depending on the swirls and scratches, you may have to use a cutting pad (yellow) and DACP to clean/polish out the defects. Then switch to a lighter polish, say 3M PIII-MG or megs #9 or BS SMR with a white polish pad.



Your finish should then look like a mirror. If not, continue with a polish to bring up the gloss.



Then wax or sealant till you're happy!



Regards,

Deanski
Click to expand...



The finish already and always has looks like an awesome black mirror (the best of any car I've seen in person, actually). It's just that that shimmering, dripping wet mirror looks like a thick clear coat over top visible swirls. I just need to get rid of the swirls and then I'll have a perfect mirror, especially in direct sunlight.



Okay, my list looks like this:

-PC 7424

-Meguiar's Swirl Free Polish

-White, yellow, and a gray pad

-Clearkote Quickshine QD (unrelated, I just need some QD!)



Should come to around $200...not bad, as long as I can get rid of the marks.



Oh, and I'd like to say, my other two cars are bright white with dark red leather interiors. Talk about being about a lot easier to keep sparkling (although not as nice as swirl-free black!).
 
If your on a bit of a budget I used a Simonize cordless orbital with Menzerna Intesnsive Polish then Menzerna Final Polish on my black Passat with very good luck. Ended up swirl free and the Orbital was only $50 US and the polishes were the intro kit for $20 .. wax of your choise after. BTW the batteries last a long time on a charge and if your not versed withan orbital its not too dangerous.



460161_4454782310539744761_vl.jpg
 
Hi Jesstzn,



Nice pic of your Passat.



You better watch out next time, I think I see a bird sitting on the powerline above....hehehe Just kidding. :p



Great job!



With Aloha,

Ranney :)
 
weegee said:
dude,



here's what you do. Learn from my expensive mistakes.



Buy a PC with 6" counterweight and velcro pad. (coastal tool has a special)

Buy a couple 7.5" white and yellow pads from topoftheline.com (if you buy 6 they give you a discount)

Use 3M SMR w/ yellow pad. Apply generously and work into a powder before buffing.

Use GEPC w/ white pad (or your S100 polish). Again, work into a powder before buffing.

Optional: Apply sealant. I'm about to try EX, but from what I hear, it's the bomb. You can use Klasse SG, but you'll need to wash out the oils from GEPC. With EX you don't have to.

Apply good wax, opinions vary. I like Blitz except it hazes on me (black car as well). So I'm going to try S100.



What you've been doing is essentially filling in the swirls with the polish and wax. Once those wear off, swirls appear again. The SMR should eliminate them for good. The EX and S100 will help protect the finish.



Trick now is to keep them off. Buy some waffle weave MF towels. I tried them this weekend. Never again will I use cotton. Pure and simple. pakshak.com has got some awesome ones. Make sure you blot dry. Using Cali WB helps tremendously as well. Any time you do anything by hand, straight lines, no swirls!!! Goes for buffing too. You can buff out with flannel or MF. I actually do both. Lastly, be careful when washing car. Lots of scratches occur that way. Use straight lines again, big bucket of sudsy water, good sheepskin wash mitt. California Duster is your friend.



This should keep you happy. Us black automobile/truck owners need to stick together.
Click to expand...



Well done. Totally agree with you. 3 years ago when i got serious about detailing i was using cotton and old t shirts and that was the biggest mistake i've ever made. My 98 Ford's paint is very soft and hates heat and too much rubbing action. It's perforated chamois (very light pressure), cheesecloth and terry towel only. Still unsure about them.



My mother bought home some microfiber towels that were supposed to clean everything without the use of any chemicals. She cleaned all the car and house windows with it and was very happy. I used my professional window cleaner and flannelette and finished off with terry towel and did a much better job.
 
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