Layering

S

Subaroo

New member
I'm new so please take it easy on me! Just kidding about the taking it easy on me.

I have read where people put a sealant on their paint and then either add another coat of sealant or layer it with wax. I like the thought of extra protection and extra depth.

My question is: If I use a DA polisher to apply the sealant (don't really know if this is better than applying by hand), and then use the DA polisher to either put on a second coat of sealant or a layer of wax on top of the first coat of sealant, does the action of the DA polisher remove any of the first layer of sealant? Would it be better to gently apply the second coat of sealant or wax by hand? From what I have read, I think if you use sealant or wax with cleaning/abrasive properties as the second layer that it will remove some or all of the sealant. But I don't know if that is the case with a DA polisher if only applying non-cleaner type sealant or wax for the top coat. I guess my mind is thinking that even if I use a noncutting foam pad that the action of the polisher may still take off some of the first coat of sealant. Can someone help to clear this up for me?
 
I use a DA to layer non cleaning sealants with no issues. You should be fine. I applied 4 layers of BFWD to my car and it looked amazing. Wait as long as you can 8-12 hours for the previous application to cure and layer away. If you use a cleaning sealant you will most likely remove the previous application.
 
The only stupid question my friend is the one's that's not asked......:bigups

Once I started applying sealants and waxes with my dual action polisher I've never looked back, it's just that nice. For the most part I'll apply 1 coat of sealant topped with 1 coat of wax for additional depth and protection. For winter protection I'll add an additional coat of sealant then wax 12 hours later.

Applying these products with a dual action polisher allows you to spread your product super thin. This is important for a few reasons;

1. Complete and consistent coverage
2. Ease of buffing
3. Avoid wasting good product which costs money

Once the sealant is cured it's generally pretty hard and while I can't be 100% certain, I don't think the subsequent layer applied in this fashion removed the first.

  • Porter Cable 7424
  • Blue or Red foam pad
  • Speed 3
 
I'll be going against the grain here, but I'm of the opinion that, unless you have a spectacularly light touch with a machine, the mechanical action will remove part of any previous layer - even if cured. Over on Detailing World, one of the members posted a test, using scientific laboratory equipment, to measure the thickness of wax and sealant layers. One of the results was that even just a light re-buff with an MF will remove part (about a third) of the product layer (the layer stabilizes at around 20 nanometers or so, even with multiple applications), until you get down to a thickness of around 6 nanometers, where further wiping then seems to have no effect. If a light buffing with an MF towel does that, how much more so the mechanical weight and action of a DA polisher?
 
umi000 said:
I'll be going against the grain here, but I'm of the opinion that, unless you have a spectacularly light touch with a machine, the mechanical action will remove part of any previous layer - even if cured. Over on Detailing World, one of the members posted a test, using scientific laboratory equipment, to measure the thickness of wax and sealant layers. One of the results was that even just a light re-buff with an MF will remove part (about a third) of the product layer (the layer stabilizes at around 20 nanometers or so, even with multiple applications), until you get down to a thickness of around 6 nanometers, where further wiping then seems to have no effect. If a light buffing with an MF towel does that, how much more so the mechanical weight and action of a DA polisher?
Click to expand...

I knew there was a reason I don't hang out at Detailing World. Sounds like a lot of technical mumbo jumbo to me.

All I know is I use a DA to apply sealants in multiple layers and have fantastic results. When I apply multiple layers the sealant longevity increases. I have no doubt I am adding more product. I can think of other things I would like that micrometer to measure but I can't type it here. :rofl
 
I've read several articles about putting wax over top of a sealant and have used it several times. I let the sealant cure for at least several hours beofre putting the wax over it. I always use a gold of blue pad with the Porter Cable. The end result always turns out really slick and seems to last a long time. I'm not sure if any of the sealant is removed but since the wax has no cleaning properties and the pad is a polishing pad my guess would be no. But either way it leaves a great finish.
 
TID10 said:
I use a DA to layer non cleaning sealants with no issues. You should be fine. I applied 4 layers of BFWD to my car and it looked amazing. Wait as long as you can 8-12 hours for the previous application to cure and layer away. If you use a cleaning sealant you will most likely remove the previous application.
Click to expand...

BobbyG said:
The only stupid question my friend is the one's that's not asked......:bigups

Once I started applying sealants and waxes with my dual action polisher I've never looked back, it's just that nice. For the most part I'll apply 1 coat of sealant topped with 1 coat of wax for additional depth and protection. For winter protection I'll add an additional coat of sealant then wax 12 hours later.

Applying these products with a dual action polisher allows you to spread your product super thin. This is important for a few reasons;

1. Complete and consistent coverage
2. Ease of buffing
3. Avoid wasting good product which costs money

Once the sealant is cured it's generally pretty hard and while I can't be 100% certain, I don't think the subsequent layer applied in this fashion removed the first.

  • Porter Cable 7424
  • Blue or Red foam pad
  • Speed 3
Click to expand...

Here are your answer's Subaroo.:bigups
 
Thanks everyone!

So the way I read it, every additional layer applied seems to add gloss or depth, and I would guess durability/protection also.

So if a sealant hypes that it will protect for 6 months, and you put a wax on top of the sealant and the wax hypes that it will protect for 4 months (say Collinite 845 or something like that), would the sealant layer not be affected by the elements until the wax wears off? So in example above, would I be good for 10 months?

If this is the case, if my first coat is '6 month sealant', then I wait several hours, and apply a second coat of '6 month sealant', would the protection be good for a year?
 
Subaroo said:
Thanks everyone!

So the way I read it, every additional layer applied seems to add gloss or depth, and I would guess durability/protection also.

So if a sealant hypes that it will protect for 6 months, and you put a wax on top of the sealant and the wax hypes that it will protect for 4 months (say Collinite 845 or something like that), would the sealant layer not be affected by the elements until the wax wears off? So in example above, would I be good for 10 months?

If this is the case, if my first coat is '6 month sealant', then I wait several hours, and apply a second coat of '6 month sealant', would the protection be good for a year?
Click to expand...



When layering product you "can" gain some durability to a point...

There is what is called "the law of diminishing returns". When it come to pure waxes it usually means that after 2-3 applications there will be no distinguishable addition of durability or depth. Basically the solvents in the new product could soften or remove the previous layers slightly as each additional layer is applied.

So layering a few coats of sealant or wax will increase durability but not at the "full" claimed rate. But layering a wax over a sealant will increase some durability and possibly looks as well.
 
I always have at least two coats of bfwd and two coats of wax. Cause I have a black car and looks sexy lol.

I always apply sealant by da with red or blue pad. If my wax I use is liquid I use da but for paste wax I use my polishing pal by hand.
 
TroyScherer said:
When layering product you "can" gain some durability to a point...

There is what is called "the law of diminishing returns". When it come to pure waxes it usually means that after 2-3 applications there will be no distinguishable addition of durability or depth. Basically the solvents in the new product could soften or remove the previous layers slightly as each additional layer is applied.

So layering a few coats of sealant or wax will increase durability but not at the "full" claimed rate. But layering a wax over a sealant will increase some durability and possibly looks as well.
Click to expand...

I have a difficulty seeing any difference by adding a second coat.

I do it when I have time but more because I think it helps, and does cover spots I may have missed on the first coat, even though I cannot see it.
 
TID10 said:
I use a DA to layer non cleaning sealants with no issues. You should be fine. I applied 4 layers of BFWD to my car and it looked amazing. Wait as long as you can 8-12 hours for the previous application to cure and layer away. If you use a cleaning sealant you will most likely remove the previous application.
Click to expand...
I worked on our Tundra all day yesterday, I told my wife to leave it home so I could apply another coat.. Anything that carries the words "cleaner" on it's label will do just that.. Clean & remove your previous work job.:rockon
 
TID10 said:
I knew there was a reason I don't hang out at Detailing World. Sounds like a lot of technical mumbo jumbo to me.

All I know is I use a DA to apply sealants in multiple layers and have fantastic results. When I apply multiple layers the sealant longevity increases. I have no doubt I am adding more product. I can think of other things I would like that micrometer to measure but I can't type it here. :rofl
Click to expand...

Hey, if you're happy with the results you're getting, that's all that really matters - more power to you :) But when you say you have no doubt you're adding more product, what scientific proof do you have that that's actually happening? :D For me, I'll stick with two layers (for even coverage) of a single product, and just re-apply every six weeks; but as I posted on another forum, I'm more enamored with having the car look good than the work entailed to get there, so I guess I have a somewhat different perspective than perhaps others would ;)
 
I've layered almost any LSP I've used (most often Zaino, which is what got me started on layering, since they suggest it on their site). My main reason has always been for the assurance of complete coverage, although the look does seem to improve some. Just my way of wasting product & time, BUT it makes me feel good!
 
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