juat some words of thought?

Barry Theal

Barry Theal

New member
ok my last click and brag received some attention from a detailing product company. a salesman contacted me and gave me the owners direct cell phone number and asked if i would call him. so we had a great discussion about a lot of his products and such. its was kinda cool i got to tell him what i thought about a few things and so on. now at no time did he come out and say use my products there the best. its was just a great general discussion. after the conversation i began to think is it really a product? so i started to think what can $1100 dollar wax that comes in a glass case do for me as compared as something like colinites 845 can't. which is under 25$ now i began to think further now over the recent months m105 and m205 boomed now i notice they have fillers. now a company like menzera who is used widely by autopians has fillers. most of us say we don't use fillers yet these to large companys products who are widely used by us autopians have fillers! now i began to think about our tools! 6 months ago we are all spinning rotarys to our hands bleed to do mulitple steps and create a perfect finish. now come to find out we can pull 1500 da sand marks with a porter cable and the right pad/product. next i began to think about the process. wash, claybar, tar remaoval, decontamination, degreasing wetsanding, buffing waxing and such. and it lead me to think what i could do with any product. we all know its prep and process to the ultimate finish on a car. but truly are we slaves to a market of advertisement? think about it. everytime something new comes out we are on it like flys on horseshit. yet the day before we created a perfect finish with something else. are we at the mercy of these manufactuers? or are they at the mercy of us? just some stuff i was thinking but i thought it could make a good thread that would spin some interesting thoughts and opionions. is it the product or the detailer? thanks for reading.
 
Well, I know this is just my sub-par, less than stellar opinion, but in this world we are constantly bombarded and manipulated by advertising, product placement, and peer pressure, and Autopia is no exception.
 
is it the product or the detailer? thanks for reading.
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It is the detailer first and the product second. Technique is vital but preparation can be done well with Wal-Mart products although better chemicals make the desired finish easier to obtain with less work. The individual and his/her efforts are the key.
 
I've noticed this tread for awhile now. I have to say I've pretty much kept my distance from most of it. I mean I have a D/A (dewalt version) but I use it only to apply wax and would never even consider it as a corrective tool since I'm already very well versed in the Rotary.



The things that do spark my interest is when someone comes up with a legit way to save time. With most on here seeming to charge by the hour techniques like that are vital from a customers perspective.



The trends i see on here seem to take place because Autopia is mainly geared towards a amature setting. While there are pro's on here this site is not catered to them. Marketers know this. So with any new product and a "Pro" to spin it for them they know very easily that sales are going to go up. (I do belive we just had one get banned for this) I know as a pro without a shadow of a doubt my technique is 95% of my ability to get the desired finish. And I don't need to worry about the new flavor of the week that always seems to run rampet around here. I will try a few things from time to time to see what the buzz is about. I was really happy I tried out Ultrafina. That product has made a huge difference for me. However I've tried stuff from Mezerna and Optimum etc etc... ehh not impressed at all. Or at least not to the point where it's a "Must have" in my aresenal. To me most of the stuff like compounds and polishes are still whatever is readily available at a pricepoint that I like is what I buy. And I still refuse to even try Zanio stuff because of the stupid steps it takes to use the products. (apply this wait 3 hours then appy that and wait another 2 hours then top off with this and voila one awesome finish....) who the heck has that kind of time? I will try out new pad's from time to time to see if I can either get a better finish, the same finish I currently can achieve easier, or if it just makes my job easier. Some work better than others.. Most don't... Just my thoughts on the subject.
 
Well Jake you pretty much summed it up for me.



A new product or even a writeup appears and out come the credit cards. Yet a couple months later there is a new flavour. Though i am glad i bought into 105, 95, 203 and UF.
 
bufferbarry said:
which is under 25$ now i began to think further now over the recent months m105 and m205 boomed now i notice they have fillers. now a company like menzera who is used widely by autopians has fillers. most of us say we don't use fillers yet these to large companys products who are widely used by us autopians have fillers!
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What does the term "filler" or "fillers" mean to you? In other words, how would you define it?
 
I would say that wiping polish residue off with just a microfiber or MF+QD, water, etc. many defect-removing products could fill defects unintentionally. I wouldn't necessarily say the products contain fillers. IPA or prep-sol should take care of this problem in most cases.



I agree with the point that many of us can get suckered into the latest and greatest product, whether its a fancy wax or something else, while other products perform very similarly at a much lower price.
 
The minds and pros here at Autopia should get together to create their own legit, non filling, effective polish. No secrets, and it's design is reflective of exactly what detailers here need.
 
I agree with Jake... I have never changed my routine based solely on advertisement and good reviews of a product, rather tried out new stuff based on those reviews only if I wanted to upgrade my current product in the same category...for example I purchased M105 and M95 when I couldn't stand the dusting from PG, which is what I was using for the most part for heavier correction... having used M95 I highly doubt I'll use anything else for a while... M105 gets more praise but M95 works for me and I'll only keep trying M105 on a hobby level, and if/when it proves better I'll use it...
 
bufferbarry said:
anything that masks a defect!
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Well, ANY polish on the market contains fillers by your definition. The term "filler" has become a dirty word around here, and other detailing sites, but I think the reality is people need to simply be aware of how the products work and adjust their routine accordingly.



*If* you even get "filling" with M105 or M205 it is not an intended result from Meguiar's- it is something that MIGHT happen, but it's just something to be aware of. It doesn't mean the products are not viable or reliable by any means. Not in my opinion anyway.



I feel the same way about many Menzerna products that are known for filling. They can still produce great results- users just need to make sure to check their work.
 
I try new products out from time to time but usually stick with what works best and if something new and better comes out I usually keep with what I have and still try it out but either way I am happy with what I use. I agree with 3M's Ultrafina, I use it in the body shop and LOVE it but for detailing I use it here and there and mostly use Optimum compound and polishes. I like them because unlike 3M which I used to use, it doesn't dust and can be used in sunlight with no problems. It may not cut as quick or anything but it stays clean so it's a trade off. I haven't tried menzerna products but I hear a LOT of people talking about it and Meguires. I am wanting to try samples to see what it's all about compaired to Optimum but not sure if I will have to change my steps and process all over again because I switch to a different product...???
 
I just got some SIP in the mail on Thursday, only because it's touted as the holy grail of polishes around here.



Meanwhile, I also picked up some Megs Swirl X because I found some positive stuff here about it. I'm thinking this is my next go-to combo (SIP then Swirl X).



Seems like the fillers are in there to make appication/removal easier, though. The oily stuff goes on and comes off beautifully without dusting. The masking effect is the x-factor.



I mean, I certainly want something that rids defects rather than hides them for a month.



I'm such a contrarian that I tend to dismiss a lot of hype. Sometimes it's a lot to wade through.
 
Setec Astronomy said:
Well, I know this is just my sub-par, less than stellar opinion, but in this world we are constantly bombarded and manipulated by advertising, product placement, and peer pressure, and Autopia is no exception.
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I think We all have fallen for some gimmick at one time or another. We detailers have to be careful not to but every new product that claims to be the best. Some work good for some ,others don't work for anyone. Be selective and spend wisely.
 
That's the beauty of sites like this. If you hear of a product chances are someone somewhere has already bitten the bullet and tried it out.I myself let it really "Fad out" before I decide on looking into it. Because what I have now works very well, and it's going to take something beyond amazing and proven for me to plunk down (sometimes) large chunks of cash just to try something out to put into place for something that already works.
 
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