It fills???

B

breakneckvtec

New member
Ok, I am learning slowly but surely. So I read on here from someone that 3M SMR has fillers in it as well as abrasives, and in order to tell how many swirls you really got you must eliminate the fillers with a 50/50 water/alcohol mixture and inspect it. Is this true? Is the 3M machine polish the same way? I ask because I plan to use the machine polish as a follow up if the SMR cant cut the mustard and then go back to the SMR to finish....experimenting in a small area first of course.

Pads, I also read you want to match the pad to the product and not the other way around. However, I have also been told that before going to the stronger machine polish I should go to the SMR with a yellow pad first and see what that does. I was going to use the white pad for the SMR as I heard the pad is better matched to it and I wanted to start at the least abrasive point I could. Whats the right way of doing this?
 
Yes, SMR's have some fillers in them. Yes, you need to remove the fillers to completely determine if the swirls have been removed. I imagine the Machine Polish is similar.



Pad/product combos are rather vague. Too many variables to provide a definitive formula. Best thing to do is start with a known combo and work small sections to determine performance. Change pad or product as needed. No two cars are the same so there is no black & white rule here. Experience determines what works. Just start polishing - you'll figure it out as you go along.
 
so lets say i use the 3M SMR and i can't see any swirls on the paint, then i follow up with klasse AIO, it removes the fillers and the swirls show up?



if this is true, what can i do to completely remove the swirls while still using AIO?
 
Hey!

If you are talking about 3M Perfect-It III Machine Glaze, it says right on the bottle: "non-filling". SMR does have fillers. I prefer using 3M's Machine Glaze as the finish is flawless and I know that I will not have swirls return once the fillers are "washed off".



However, I am using a rotary buffer. I am not sure how the PC will react to the PI-III Machine Glaze. If I get a chance, I will try the PC with it and let you know! :)
 
breakneckvtec- MY $.02: The SMR is SO mild that the yellow pad probably won't help any. I myself only use SMR's for a final pass on an already virtually-perfect finish (in fact, I no longer use 3M's SMR at all, in part due to the fillers). In your case I'd probably go with a slightly stronger product with the white pad, then using the yellow pad if need be (likely). DON'T be afraid to use the yellow pads. Now I'm not one to polish away the clearcoat in search of a perfect finish; I want the original paint to last. But IMHO, it's not like yellow pads really mar the finish that much, rather they let the product do its job better. Some products that don't seem to do ANYTHING with a polishing pad, work great with a cutting one. I guess I match both the product AND the pad to the job at hand.
 
I was thinking of just using the fine cut compound and then going to SMR once the swirls are gone. Any thoughts on this? Does the fine cut have fillers as well? I doubt it but do I run a risk of breaching the clear coat? I was under the impression that was near impossible to do. I am gonna start with a white pad and the go more if need be, is this good or start higher?
 
breakneckvtec,



I am in a similiar situation. I am getting things in line for my srping detail once the weather warms up a bit. If your paint isn't too bad there is a product called mezerna. It seems that this is a polish that contains no fillers. It is new to the US and seems to be creating quite a buzz. There are tow of them an intesive and a final. I was going to give them a shot ( well the final) then a #7 and the BF PP and a S100 topper. If your curious here is the link on CMA's site:













http://www.properautocare.com/mengerbespol.html
 
2hotford said:
Hey!

However, I am using a rotary buffer. I am not sure how the PC will react to the PI-III Machine Glaze. If I get a chance, I will try the PC with it and let you know! :)
Click to expand...
Works fine with the PC . . . seems to be slightly less agressive than FI-II, but breaks down easier, and the residue is easier to buff off. I used a yellow cutting pad (was knocking down some swirl marks, and a couple of slighly deeper scuffs), and didn't need to follow up with a white pad or milder polish; the P3 Machine Glaze gave a nice final gloss without a second step. (Caveat: my car is a bright silver metallic; a black vehicle may have shown hazing - YMMV).



Tort
 
Tort, didn't you once use PI-III to remove compound swirls from a rotary buffer on a black car? If so, how was PI-III as a finishing product? Was there any 'lighter' swirling that had to be cleared up?



Thanks.



Tony
 
I use the P-III Machine Glaze and a PC. Setting of 5 and it removes the swirls and any hazing from compounding! It's a great product! The trick is to work it until it starts to look 'wet'. White pad seems to be the best for this.
 
I was thinking of just using the fine cut compound and then going to SMR once the swirls are gone. Any thoughts on this? Does the fine cut have fillers as well? I doubt it but do I run a risk of breaching the clear coat? I was under the impression that was near impossible to do. I am gonna start with a white pad and the go more if need be, is this good or start higher?
Click to expand...

For sake of this explanation, I define a swirl as a micro scratch or very fine scratch that is light dependent. In some light or at some angles of relection looks bad, but can't be seen at some other angles or in some types of light. A fine scratch can be always be seen without regard to type of light or angle or relection and is not light dependent. Think of someone putting a full brown paper grocery bag on of the flat surface of their trunk and then pulling it off the trunk. The fine scratches generated are not light dependent and therefore not swirl marks - they are bad enough so they can be seen easily all the time.



A PC with a yellow pad and 3M PI-II Fine Cut would be appropriate to remove the grocery bag fine scratches. After you have worked the Fine Cut, you will not be able to tell exactly how good a job you did at removing the scratches. Once you spray with the 50/50 water/achohol mixture and buff with that 100% cotton towel it will be very obvious. One of those things that is a little difficult to describe in words, but becomes very obvious the first time you do it. With the fine cut you would always need to remove the residue with the 50/50 water/alcohol mixture.



Yes, there is filler in 3M SMR. If you have used the SMR to the extent that you have successfully removed all swirls, than you do not need to fill swirls that are not there, and you may wish to use the 50/50 water/alcohol mixture. Experimentation will tell what looks best on a given vehicle. On the other hand, if you are not fully removing all the swirls than you would like to leave the filler.



A lot of this is like the first time you drove a car. You can hear about, and read about it, but you can't really get the hang of it until you actually do it and feel it. If you have not already looked at it, here is a link to David's video on using a PC. Good look, hope some of this helps.
 
Intermezzo said:
Tort, didn't you once use PI-III to remove compound swirls from a rotary buffer on a black car? If so, how was PI-III as a finishing product? Was there any 'lighter' swirling that had to be cleared up?
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Tony,



That was FI-II on a black truck that had some wicked buffer marks . . .



I've only had the opportunity to use PI-III on a couple of light-colored cars so far, then winter got in the way of any further testing. On those cars, I went straight from the PI-III machine glaze to sealant; the surface had excellent gloss and was very slick after polishing with yellow pad/PC, no noticeable haze. Again, this was on light-colored vehicles, so any hazing would be hard to see . . .



The first warm weekend we get here in Omaha, I'll have a chance to give a review of how well it works on black; a buddy of mine just bought a black metallic Subie wagon on which the dealer oh-so-thoughtfully pre-installed swirls. I love other people's black cars! :D



Tort
 
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